When seconds count, the police are minutes away...

This is a discussion on When seconds count, the police are minutes away... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by JimmyC4 A bit off topic, but your post brings back memories of the hysteria during that whole Alton Coleman manhunt...he was a ...

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Thread: When seconds count, the police are minutes away...

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC4 View Post
    A bit off topic, but your post brings back memories of the hysteria during that whole Alton Coleman manhunt...he was a ruthless killer!
    The supreme irony is that while I'm from Chicago, I was stationed at Ft. Knox at the time. I believe that he was still on the loose when I returned to Chicago, and that I was there when he was captured in Evanston. I moved to Ohio in '86 and lo and behold, found out later that he was in prison and on trial in Ohio for a carjacking/murder. He was convicted, given the death penalty and executed here. I imagine his dimwit girlfriend/accomplice will die in prison.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Whether or not the officer is there to protect you the individual is actually completely up to the officer. Many people don't know that police have no obligation to protect you. It is up to them and probably most officers would actually be willing to, it only takes one that isn't.
    The truth is that whether that cop is totally selfless or totally malicious, he's not going to protect you as an individual whether he wants to or not because 99% of the time it's not physically POSSIBLE.

    You can love the police or hate the police, the laws of physics don't change. If it takes the police five minutes to respond to the scene AND be physically in your presence and it takes your assailant two minutes to stab you to death, you're going to be dead for three minutes when they get there.

    911 is a communications system of variable efficacy, NOT a matter transporter. If your life needs defending RIGHT NOW, either you (or somebody close to you) are going to do it or it's simply not going to get done AT ALL, the good or bad intentions of the police notwithstanding.

    My experience with 911 is 50/50 at best. I have no illusions about "protecting" myself by calling 911, without factoring the police in AT ALL. When you add the police, that's just another potential point of failure in a long chain of potential points of failure. As the baby in the stock trading commercial says, you're as likely to be attacked by a polar bear and a regular bear in the same day.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    The truth is that whether that cop is totally selfless or totally malicious, he's not going to protect you as an individual whether he wants to or not because 99% of the time it's not physically POSSIBLE.

    You can love the police or hate the police, the laws of physics don't change. If it takes the police five minutes to respond to the scene AND be physically in your presence and it takes your assailant two minutes to stab you to death, you're going to be dead for three minutes when they get there.

    911 is a communications system of variable efficacy, NOT a matter transporter. If your life needs defending RIGHT NOW, either you (or somebody close to you) are going to do it or it's simply not going to get done AT ALL, the good or bad intentions of the police notwithstanding.

    My experience with 911 is 50/50 at best. I have no illusions about "protecting" myself by calling 911, without factoring the police in AT ALL. When you add the police, that's just another potential point of failure in a long chain of potential points of failure. As the baby in the stock trading commercial says, you're as likely to be attacked by a polar bear and a regular bear in the same day.
    you misunderstood. My statement is that regardless of the officer's location he doesn't even have the obligation to protect you. Even if he is standing right next to you.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    you misunderstood. My statement is that regardless of the officer's location he doesn't even have the obligation to protect you. Even if he is standing right next to you.
    I wasn't contradicting what you said, merely emphasizing that when your life is in danger RIGHT NOW, their intentions are mostly irrelevant. They don't have any LEGAL DUTY to protect you as an individual either, whether they have the ability or not.

    Both of our statements are true and anyone believes the contrary to their own peril.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    you misunderstood. My statement is that regardless of the officer's location he doesn't even have the obligation to protect you. Even if he is standing right next to you.
    As per most police units across this country they do have an obligation to both "serve" and "protect" the public as part of their job description. Do they have a legal requirement, in most cases no. Can they be fired for not performing their job, yes. Where they have been found not to have an obligation, it is meaning they do not have a"legal obligation".

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    As per most police units across this country they do have an obligation to both "serve" and "protect" the public as part of their job description. Do they have a legal requirement, in most cases no. Can they be fired for not performing their job, yes. Where they have been found not to have an obligation, it is meaning they do not have a"legal obligation".
    You said it yourself. They serve and protect the public (community)... as a whole... not the individual officer and not the individual citizen.

    Court Says No Protection Required

    Slain woman's family sues - chicagotribune.com

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po...otus.html?_r=2

    Believe me... an officer of the law has no duty to protect an individual all by his lonesome. I also doubt he would be fired for not sacrificing himself or not blindly running in to protect a citizen. They stay put and wait for backup. I understand this and it is one of the reasons I carry.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    I wasn't contradicting what you said, merely emphasizing that when your life is in danger RIGHT NOW, their intentions are mostly irrelevant. They don't have any LEGAL DUTY to protect you as an individual either, whether they have the ability or not.

    Both of our statements are true and anyone believes the contrary to their own peril.
    your right, I jumped the gun (no pun intended)
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    your right, I jumped the gun (no pun intended)
    I had a "discussion" about your well taken point with a guy in another forum about a week ago. He absolutely INSISTED that police had a LEGAL DUTY to protect YOU as an individual. I've come across that nonsense so many times in usenet and on message boards that I have a canned response with legal citations handy for copying and pasting. He flat out wouldn't believe ANYTHING that contradicted his fantasy, and clearly didn't read ANY of the legal citations which I posted. He never posted a SINGLE citation of case law requiring police to protect individuals not possessing the requisite "special relationship" with the police, instead substituting personal insults.

    Some people are just unalterably wedded to comforting fantasies.

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