Scenario time (happened 2 weeks ago)

This is a discussion on Scenario time (happened 2 weeks ago) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So got a scenario for you guys, draw or no draw. My aunt was driving home after bingo at the church a couple weeks ago. ...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 77

Thread: Scenario time (happened 2 weeks ago)

  1. #1
    Member Array USAFtrevor87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Inver Grove Heights, MN
    Posts
    38

    Scenario time (happened 2 weeks ago)

    So got a scenario for you guys, draw or no draw.

    My aunt was driving home after bingo at the church a couple weeks ago. There was a stopped car on the side of the road and a lady holding a baby trying to wave her down. My aunt stopped and the lady said "help me, help me, he's beating me." With visible bruises and red marks on her; my aunt let her in the car and the stopped car on the side of the road with the Abuser took off.
    My aunt was pretty scared she didn't know what to really do (and didn't have a cell phone). The lady asked my aunt to take her to her sisters house a few miles down the road. So she did; and on the way back they saw 2 headlights swerve in front of her and forced her to stop. The guy basically blocked her in and she couldn't back out or go forward, she had no means of escape. The guy came pounding on the passenger side window, yelling and screaming. He was saying stuff like "So this is how you want it. I will find you wherever you tried to hide." He kept screaming at my aunt "unlock your doors or you'll be sorry you didn't".
    K so scenario time... picture all this going on to you, with a CCL. What do you do? He never threatened your life (saying he would kill you), but he did say "you'll be sorry" does that constitute great bodily harm? Would you get out and draw on him? What do you guys think?
    Since trying to de-escalate the situtation didn't work, and you had no means of escape, and you were protecting someone with you, I probably would've gotten out and drew on the guy. BUT! would the cops or court see this as "well you could just stayed in your car and kept the doors locked?".

    The end result was he drove off, and my aunt pulled into the nearest house and called the cops. The cops ended up arresting the abuser, the woman who got hit, because they were both drunk and both on probation. The baby went to her sisters. Just would like your inputs as I am rather new to CC.

    Thanks guys

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array Adameeski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    475
    I would draw my cell phone and make sure the man knew I was dialing 911. His next reaction would most likely be to flee. It would take more than banging on my window and screaming to make me draw my weapon.

    My question to you is, when is your aunt getting her carry permit?
    ...Adam

    "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." --Winston Churchill

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array 64zebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Panhandle of Texas
    Posts
    6,437
    some states/jurisdictions will interpret this differently, but from a Texas LEO perspective it meets the requirements where a person would reasonably believe the dirtbag is about to cause serious bodily injury since it looked like he'd assaulted the woman and she said he had, plus his vocal threat while beating on the windows

    so to answer your base question....yes I think you're perfectly justified in drawing on this guy.....but.....
    thats a tough scenario since she didn't have a cell phone and couldn't get her car out....if you get out and draw do you have anyone passing by that can call 911? are there people in houses that can see this and call?
    however first priority is at that moment preventing him from hurting you or the victim in your car

    if it was me he'd be staring at the muzzle of my Glock
    always have a cell phone along with your gun

    Adameeski...welcome to the forum....and I'm not bashing you, just wanting to pick your brain a bit (and add to the scenario)....but you said
    "It would take more than banging on my window and screaming to make me draw my weapon."
    at what point would you draw? would you wait for the window to break and his arms reaching in grabbing you already then attempt to draw on him with his hands on you face to face? or do you wait for him to show a weapon at point blank range at your window then try to draw when you're already behind the curve?
    just food for thought
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Really SW, Virginia
    Posts
    4,652
    Quote Originally Posted by Adameeski View Post
    I would draw my cell phone and make sure the man knew I was dialing 911. His next reaction would most likely be to flee. It would take more than banging on my window and screaming to make me draw my weapon.

    My question to you is, when is your aunt getting her carry permit?
    According to the OP, you don't have a cell phone. Now what?
    NRA Member
    Glock 26 XD9sc
    Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    2,875
    First of all, her good Samaritan intentions put her at risk. Not saying she should not have stopped, but this could have been a ruse to attack, rob and or kill her. Not all scenes are exactly as they appear. She could have easily become the victim, rather than helping one.

    Your aunt needs to take a good long hard look at the world around us now. It isn't Mayberry anymore and people have just lost their good sense. She needs to begin to carry a cell phone and some type of weapon for just such an event.

    First of all, I would not exit the vehicle to confront a potential attacker. Locking the car doors and keeping the windows up would be somewhat of a barrier. However, if the attacker attempts to enter the vehicle and I'm armed, he will get the business end of a 9mm pistol. His attack upon me and any passengers in the vehicle will justify using the handgun in self defense.

    This is the reason why we carry in the first place, to defend from potential lethal attack, no matter what the perp believes is justifiable. Many states including mine have extended the Castle Doctrine laws to vehicles. Because of situations just like this one, people are getting armed in order to stay safe.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Willis, TX
    Posts
    1,225
    The moment the guy started banging on my window he'd get ONE warning. If he didn't retreat immediately I'd assume my life was in danger and act accordingly.

  8. #7
    PM
    PM is offline
    Senior Member Array PM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    650
    I would not exit the car to draw. In that the young lady is not in my car (see OP second paragraph) I could draw and be ready acrossed the passager seat without the fear of the SHTF from the abused "spouse" fearing I was about to shoot the Dirtbag abuser. (this is how a lot of LEOs get hurt; wives/GFs attack when theLEO starts to take the man to jail!) So, I would stay in the car, draw my weapon and wait for him to break the window. At which point he has shown intent to do me grave bodily harm and he would either get shot or be ******* his pants as he ran for his car. More than likely being drunk -- he would be a dead drunk!!

  9. #8
    Member Array Adameeski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    at what point would you draw? would you wait for the window to break and his arms reaching in grabbing you already then attempt to draw on him with his hands on you face to face? or do you wait for him to show a weapon at point blank range at your window then try to draw when you're already behind the curve?
    just food for thought
    64zebra, I certainly can see your point, however, in the way the situation was described, he wasn't brandishing any type of weapon. I'm sure if he had a gun or club or something like that my reaction would be quite different. I'm not sure if you have ever seen somebody try to break a closed car window out, but the vast majority of people would not be capable of doing that with a bare hand in one strike. Remember that the aunt is sitting in the driver's seat and the bg is banging on the passenger's window. In the passenger's seat is a confused, scared woman with a baby in her arms. Pulling a gun and placing the gun in front of her and her baby's face pointed at her boyfriend/husband seems like an incredibly stupid idea. What if she decides she doesn't want him shot or fears for her life or her baby's life and grabs the gun. Obviously getting out of the car wouldn't be an intelligent thing to do either. So there you are, left with a man screaming and banging on a very hard window and you are not in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death.

    That's my 2 cents.

    Edit: It took me so long to type this out that PM beat me to the punch on the scenario.
    ...Adam

    "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." --Winston Churchill

  10. #9
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,762
    I don't feel he crossed the line of becoming a deadly threat--yet. Angry? Out of control? Needs to go to jail to sober up and cool off? Yes, on all three.

    It would be tough to explain--in any circumstances--why you ended up shooting through a window at someone outside, apparently unarmed.

    Presenting a firearm can be considered assault with a deadly weapon unless circumstances justify it.

    I'd certainly call 911 and if he broke the window or managed to open the door, draw--and fire if necessary.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #10
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,095
    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    First of all, her good Samaritan intentions put her at risk. Not saying she should not have stopped, but this could have been a ruse to attack, rob and or kill her. Not all scenes are exactly as they appear. She could have easily become the victim, rather than helping one.

    Your aunt needs to take a good long hard look at the world around us now.
    +1 Sad, but true. What if the dirtbag was armed and ended up shooting his wife/squeeze as well as your aunt? A cell phone is a must. If your aunt is elderly or non-technical, get her one of those easy-to-use Jitterbug phones.


    1. Call 911
    2. Wait for the pros.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    englewood, fl
    Posts
    1,751
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I don't feel he crossed the line of becoming a deadly threat--yet. Angry? Out of control? Needs to go to jail to sober up and cool off? Yes, on all three.

    It would be tough to explain--in any circumstances--why you ended up shooting through a window at someone outside, apparently unarmed.

    Presenting a firearm can be considered assault with a deadly weapon unless circumstances justify it.

    I'd certainly call 911 and if he broke the window or managed to open the door, draw--and fire if necessary.
    you dont see a disparity of force in this scenario?...a man has blocked a vehicle in...is throwing threats around and pounding on windows and you cant find a reason to display a form of self defense?...he gets through the window an its too late...he has already assaulted you by blocking you in and his actions are threatening...

    there is no place to go...he needs to know you intend to use force to end the situation one way or another...flipping him the bird isnt going to do it and waiting until he breaks in isnt going to leave you in a good place...

    biggest problem...his girlfriend/wife/whateve is in the car...you display a firearm that puts his life in jeopardy and youre liable to dend her into the "i know he abuses me but i love him" panic and youre gonna have to make some real serious decisions on how you handle her and him...you have walked into what may be a no win situation...

    you have every right to display and warn in this situation...you might want to get her on board first though...because surprizing her with a gun isnt in your best interest...

    hindsight...never take someone home...you may be walking into a trap and end up the victim of a crime...if you feel you need to get someone to safety choose a hospital, fire station or best bet a police station...you dont enter someone elses turf after youve already involved yourself in their situation...its trouble....the abuser isnt going to want to take this to a public place that is normally close to law enforcement...think before you respond to someones request...you are the one offering assistance...you are in control...otherwise they walk...

    it was risky to take her in in the first place...but i understand...a prepaid cell phone is cheap to own and could be real handy in a situation like this....youre on with 911 before the person even enters your vehicle and depending on where you are you have an opportunity to end it with a police escort....your first order of business s protecting yourself..cause when you go down there isnt going to be anyone else to help out...

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,226
    I wouldn't draw, but I'd have it ready. This is a perfect chance to use a less-than-lethal option.

    Lock door, close windows, honk horn and attempt to drive away. Look for ways to go through the grass if need be.

    If perp breaks window, spray with pepper spray if possible. If he does not retreat, and continues to reach in your car and assault you, then pull firearm.

    If he still does not retreat, then fire to protect yourself.

    I do not want to shoot someone, and I will do every possible to avoid it, as long as it's not putting myself in extreme danger.

    Keep in mind, if you shoot the guy, you just shot the "baby's daddy" of the lady sitting inside the locked car with you. Who knows how she will react.

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    1,943
    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    First of all, her good Samaritan intentions put her at risk. Not saying she should not have stopped, but this could have been a ruse to attack, rob and or kill her.
    Yep. I heard about a series of incidents back in the 70's where a young woman would stand by a car on the side of the road, holding a baby, and try to flag people down. Once someone stopped, her "friends" would suddenly introduce themselves.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Putting aside the mistake of picking someone off the side of the road... and the fact she took her to a house and not a hospital..........

    If possible drive through lawn. If not possible, back into his car cattywompus to push it out of the way. I don't know what car he had or she had, I don't know what the house, lawn or driveway looked like and I don't know what she had on hand.... However I do know that a car is a great defensive as well as offense tool. It can get you out of **** and it can stop **** from happening.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    1,455
    I don't understand how the car is pinned in by just a car in front of it?

    She should be able to drive away, and I have no problem with ramming/pushing his car out of the way if I think I am in danger, or someone I am trying to protect. That's what insurance is for, and it leaves proof that he was there and blocking you in. Then drive straight to the police station to make a report since she didn't have a cell phone to call it in.

    As far as drawing goes, I will not wait for an assailant to break a window or show a weapon before I draw mine. That gives them the tactical advantage. You don't have to shoot him thgough the window if you would rather wait for him to have access to do harm, but if someone is intent on harming you or someone else, a car window will not stop them, and you could be reasonably in fear of your life or great bodily harm.

    Drive away if at all possible. If not, as he approaches the car I would put my hand on my gun and as he gets close enough to make contact or be a threat I would be drawing.

    Normally I would not get out of the car to deal with a threat, but in this sittuation, with an unknown in the front seat with you, this might be safer, and it gives you more distance since the BG is on her side of the car. He would get a warning to back away from the car and leave, and if he continues to pound on the car or takes action to move towards me, it will end badly for him.

    I still think ramming and driving away is the best option. But as far as being justified to shoot goes, you do not have to have a weapon to kill someone, and if he was mad enough to try to smash a stranger's car in to get to his girlfriend, he is definitly a danger and worthy of "fearing for your life."
    Walk softly ...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. This robbery actually happened, scenario time
    By Sticks in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: April 8th, 2010, 10:21 PM
  2. FLORIDA cutting CWP processing time from months to weeks
    By uziman2k in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 7th, 2009, 08:50 AM
  3. Kentucky CCW turn around time - 5 weeks
    By Cincy Ron in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: July 16th, 2009, 01:07 PM
  4. ....First Carry Scenario..just happened, almost car jacked
    By tizzle0469 in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: August 30th, 2008, 01:38 AM
  5. Wild West REAL SCENARIO: Happened 8-24-06 at 17:30 Hours
    By DarthAmerica in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: August 25th, 2006, 10:09 PM