The flip side....I stopped a CHL holder

The flip side....I stopped a CHL holder

This is a discussion on The flip side....I stopped a CHL holder within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I stopped a motorcycle for 71 in a 45mph zone. The guy stopped about as normal as possible, did everything right. I got his license-good, ...

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Thread: The flip side....I stopped a CHL holder

  1. #1
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    The flip side....I stopped a CHL holder

    I stopped a motorcycle for 71 in a 45mph zone.
    The guy stopped about as normal as possible, did everything right.
    I got his license-good, motorcycle endorsement-good, insurance-good, registration-good (don't see these too often where all is good).
    I run him on computer.....BEEP BEEP (computer talking) "Concealed Weapons Permit".
    I guess they got our computer system working with the DPS database like its supposed to....finally.
    I write his ticket and go to him and ask: "Do you have your gun with you?"
    guy: "no, its at home, and officer I forgot to tell you, I haven't had the license long and I left my card at home"
    me: "its ok, you don't have your gun with you so you don't have to inform me or show me your license"
    guy: "oh, well the Deputy in xxxxx that taught our course told us we have to show the CHL all the time even if we don't have our gun"



    HOLY CRAP
    why do people keep teaching this to the CHL students?!?!?!?
    when I got my CHL our teacher made it very clear that this was not the case, you do NOT have to inform unless you are carrying!
    This hasn't changed, its the same as when I took the class in 2005.
    rant off

    I politely informed him that he was misinformed and that he in fact did not have to show the card/inform unless he was carrying a handgun at the time. I told him to re-read his CHL handbook or get on the DPS website to see the section covering this. He was cool with it all and was completely cooperative. I pleaded with him to slow down (street has lots of traffic, racers, and speeders...oh and wrecks).
    LEO/CHL
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    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?


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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    HOLY CRAP
    why do people keep teaching this to the CHL students?!?!?!?
    Also puzzling is why the students would even believe such a silly notion.

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    good point, but its probably since they don't know and they are the students....and the instructor tells them such, I can only assume they are taking the word of the instructor since they are supposed to be the one knowlegable in all this
    however.....if they'd read the handbook given in class.............
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    . . . . . . "Do you have your gun with you?"

    Guy: "No, its at home, and officer I forgot to tell you, I haven't had the license long and I left my card at home."

    64zebra [the cop] "Its ok, you don't have your gun with you so you don't have to inform me or show me your license".
    But to continue this story further in zebra's city:

    My wife: "Yes I know that I do not need to inform you or show you the license, but ever since I got the license, I have been dying for an opportunity to show it off."
    Last edited by cwblanco; April 14th, 2010 at 10:25 AM.
    Live every day so that you can, with a clear conscience, look all men in their eyes and tell them to go to hell.

  5. #5
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    I am well versed in Texas CHL laws, and know that I don’t have to show my CHL license if I’m not carrying. But I do show my license when stopped, even if I’m not carrying. I do this for this very reason…

    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    I run him on computer.....BEEP BEEP (computer talking) "Concealed Weapons Permit".
    I guess they got our computer system working with the DPS database like its supposed to....finally.
    I write his ticket and go to him and ask: "Do you have your gun with you?"
    I think it’s better to have the conversation upfront, rather than the officer finding out from the computer, and wondering whether or not I have a handgun on me. I think it’s better for me and for the officer. It shows that I'm not trying to hide anything. Sometimes the officer asks if I am carrying, and sometimes they hand the license back to me without even asking if I have a handgun on me.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Member Array aedinius's Avatar
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    My class's instructor said it was purely a courtesy, and encouraged us to disclose that up front.
    Knowing is half the battle.

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    If it makes you feel any better, my instructor went to some length to explain that while you don't have to show your CHL if you're not carrying, many *officers* don't understand that rule. And if you get pulled over by one of those, you're going to get a great big blast of bad attitude when they run your license.

    So... as a common sense guideline (not law), many CHL instructors encourage their students to *always* display both TXDL & CHL to an officer. Which I completely support. Better to display both when it's not necessary, than stick to the letter of the law & get reamed (or worse) by an officer who's uninformed.

    It's possible the student just didn't explain himself as clearly as possible on that point.

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    I learned long ago in the service that everyone seems to "know" the rules and regs, and spouted them on a regular basis. But when I looked them up myself and found that the majority of the time, those "on the know" were flat out wrong, and the regs said something entirely different. Myths and misinterpretations seems to perpetuate forever.

    That's one reason why I don't go to forums on matters of CC questions and legalities (or even so-called experts). I go to the source--state/Fed regs.

    Nice to see a well-informed LEO who sets the record straight.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Also puzzling is why the students would even believe such a silly notion.
    Because the instructor licensed by the state to teach them all about the law told them so. Same thing as if a teacher taught your student something that wasn't true at school. Most students would go with it if it wasn't something they knew about in the first place. Why? Because the teacher said it, and the teacher surely knows what she's talking about right?
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    Sounds like you treated him very nicely, btw. 71 in a 45? That's simply reckless! Thanks for being the thin blue line and for treating that guy with courtesy when you could have thumped him really hard.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Also puzzling is why the students would even believe such a silly notion.
    As "silly of a notion" as it may be, I believe it actually was the law in Ohio to inform regardless of whether you have the gun at the time. Thankfully that law has been changed.

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wmhawth
    Also puzzling is why the students would even believe such a silly notion.
    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Because the instructor licensed by the state to teach them all about the law told them so. Same thing as if a teacher taught your student something that wasn't true at school. Most students would go with it if it wasn't something they knew about in the first place. Why? Because the teacher said it, and the teacher surely knows what she's talking about right?
    That might hold true for children.

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    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    71 in a 45 and you let him off without a ticket? Jeesh... I never got that lucky and I was never THAT far over the speed limit.
    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    That might hold true for children.
    Exactly. I don't trust that anyone is 100% perfect. People like that are the reason why politicians can straight up lie and people believe them. They trust the word of authority figures.

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    re: 64 Zebra-- good post, and a response

    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    I stopped a motorcycle for 71 in a 45mph zone.
    The guy stopped about as normal as possible, did everything right.
    I got his license-good, motorcycle endorsement-good, insurance-good, registration-good (don't see these too often where all is good).
    I run him on computer.....BEEP BEEP (computer talking) "Concealed Weapons Permit".
    I guess they got our computer system working with the DPS database like its supposed to....finally.
    I write his ticket and go to him and ask: "Do you have your gun with you?"
    guy: "no, its at home, and officer I forgot to tell you, I haven't had the license long and I left my card at home"
    me: "its ok, you don't have your gun with you so you don't have to inform me or show me your license"
    guy: "oh, well the Deputy in xxxxx that taught our course told us we have to show the CHL all the time even if we don't have our gun"



    HOLY CRAP
    why do people keep teaching this to the CHL students?!?!?!?
    when I got my CHL our teacher made it very clear that this was not the case, you do NOT have to inform unless you are carrying!
    This hasn't changed, its the same as when I took the class in 2005.
    rant off

    I politely informed him that he was misinformed and that he in fact did not have to show the card/inform unless he was carrying a handgun at the time. I told him to re-read his CHL handbook or get on the DPS website to see the section covering this. He was cool with it all and was completely cooperative. I pleaded with him to slow down (street has lots of traffic, racers, and speeders...oh and wrecks).
    Thank you for a good post from the other side.

    1_ I'm glad that the computer actually gave you a heads up. I know there are others who think things shouldn't work that way, and I also realize it does nothing to protect you at all from folks engaged in unlicensed vehicle carry, but it is still good as far as I am concerned.

    2_When I went through renewal class the instructor strongly urged us to show our CHL whether carrying or not. Apparently there is as much confusion on the part of some officers as there is among instructors and among CHL holders, and there have been some false arrests when an officer mistakenly thought the unarmed CHL holder violated the law by not showing his license. The legal bill totaled 12K even though nothing wrong was done; plus the inconvenience. For that reason the instructor suggested it made sense to just show the CHL.

    3)_Last time I was stopped (didn't signal a lane change) I was not armed and I did not show my license. This was about 8 months ago. I have no idea if the officer ever knew I was a license holder, but he said nothing and did not ask me if I was armed.

    My personal opinion is that everyone should be required to notify, licensed or not, as long as they are armed. Yes, there may be a conflict with 5th right against self incrimination if you try to require a BG to admit to illegal carry, but there will probably be other charges that will stick and that charge won't need to be pursued.

    I really don't like our present goofy system in which non-licensed car carry has no notification requirement; licensed car carry has a notification requirement with no penalty for failure to notify.

    Only The Texas Leg. can screw things up like that.

    (When I first moved here 35 years ago an old curmudgeon told me: "No one is safe when The Texas legislature is in session."

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    I keep my CHL in front of my TDL in the window of my wallet. Most of the time I use it for identification instead of my DL. Not intentionally, it's just the first card I pull out when needed.

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