carry on school grounds in Texas - Page 2

carry on school grounds in Texas

This is a discussion on carry on school grounds in Texas within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Look on page 40 of your Texas Concealed Handgun Laws book. At the bottom of the page it list Premises as "a building or portion ...

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Thread: carry on school grounds in Texas

  1. #16
    Member Array tiwood's Avatar
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    Look on page 40 of your Texas Concealed Handgun Laws book. At the bottom of the page it list Premises as "a building or portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area". Yes this is a quote, I suggest you carry your book in your car, I plan to.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    You can here in Kansas, and I keep a copy of the law in my car ... because the LEO's here are NOT generally told about it.... and I'm in a small town, with small town mentality, who don't get it. IN other words, if they were in the top of their class, they wouldn't be in Law Enforcement here.

  3. #18
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    We discussed what the instructor had taught us and he let me go with no ticket. I need to know what the law is on this so I don't get in trouble at a school.
    Actually it appears that you had an adult discussion and that you did know enough to keep you out of trouble. where is the problem

    Oh, here it is...

    One thing you got to realize is that cops don't know the law.
    "and I'm in a small town, with small town mentality, who don't get it. IN other words, if they were in the top of their class, they wouldn't be in Law Enforcement here."
    I just wonder what a poop storm it would cause if a LEO talked about the lawbiding citizen like this...Paint them all as gun nuts and such...

    There is a broken record and it really does not matter the subject matter, it automatically dissolves to the lowest level..Stupid cops..blah..blah...blah..

    Really...that is all you have to offer...

    ...just a thought
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TapRackBang View Post
    I just wonder what a poop storm it would cause if a LEO talked about the lawbiding citizen like this...Paint them all as gun nuts and such...

    There is a broken record and it really does not matter the subject matter, it automatically dissolves to the lowest level..Stupid cops..blah..blah...blah..

    Really...that is all you have to offer...

    ...just a thought
    Personally.... I think you are barking up the wrong tree with your statement and are making a lot of assumptions, as well as categorizing people you know nothing about. I never said ALL Cops are stupid, that's YOUR twist to it..... pls don't try to twist what I say to fit your interpretation.

    I said ... " because the LEO's here are NOT generally told about it.... and I'm in a small town, with small town mentality, who don't get it. IN other words, if they were in the top of their class, they wouldn't be in Law Enforcement here " .

    That's just FACTUAL.

    Uh, I worked in the system a long time ... this is a small town, but there are a lot of Law Enforcement folks who live here (in this "small" town). There are several Hwy Patrolman, several Sheriff's deputies, a couple of DEA agents, a couple of US Marshalls , a couple of FBI agents, State Bureau of Invest, members of a large nearby City Police Dept... ...... and on and on and on. There are also a lot of attorneys, a couple of Judges, and some correctional folks who live here as well.

    What I said, is what we all say about our "town" LEO's, and is quite factual. ........ as there are a LOT of opportunities nearby for Law Enforcement and they would be paid a lot more than they are here .... and if they could qualify ...... they wouldn't be here.

    This is the place alot of 'newbies' try to work in order to get some experience, so they can get a job in one of the better / larger Depts nearby, or can't make it anywhere else. IF they are at or near the "top part of their class" , they won't be found working here.

    The ironic part, the town council and Chief, are very anti-gun and do NOT keep their personnel educated on the laws very well at all. We have some State Laws that say .... no town or municipality shall pass any law making it illegal for CC licensed person to carry in city parks, grounds, walkways, etc. .... and guess what, this town council did it anyway. They think they are somehow "exempt" from the rest of the world and will do what they want, arrest people and put them thru as much hassle as they can... for it to be just thrown out.... but they hope people won't want the hassle and will honor it anyway.

  5. #20
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    I never said ALL Cops are stupid
    Well, I feel much better now.. what was I thinking.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    That's good info, I always thought of premises as Buildings and adjacent lands as premises. Could you please tell me what statue says that? Knowledge is power. I'll go look it up, because our school board uses their parking lots as premises also. I don't think it's a fight I really want to take on at this time, but as stated, knowledge is power. Thanks.
    Thanks tiwood.

    Texas Penal Code 45-035. Very interesting indeed. I'm just wondering if there is another statue somewhere that might confllict with this that grants school districts the authority to do this, as we all know, there is never just one law for anything. I might not have worded this just right, but hopefully my meaning as been understood. I know this covers us, but still!! LOL
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    That's good info, I always thought of premises as Buildings and adjacent lands as premises. Could you please tell me what statue says that? Knowledge is power. I'll go look it up, because our school board uses their parking lots as premises also. I don't think it's a fight I really want to take on at this time, but as stated, knowledge is power. Thanks.
    A little history is in order, I think. When the original Texas CHL statute was passed in 1995, it did not define "premises," though the legislative intent was pretty clear, I thought, that they meant "buildings." (The term "premises," in some other legal contexts, can also mean most any piece of real estate.) Some school districts asked for Attorney General opinions as to whether carry was prohibited on school grounds, parking lots, etc. In a couple of counterintuitive, poorly written decisions, the then-AG Dan Morales (who later went to the pen) stated that any property under the control of the school was "premises." The '97 legislature fixed it, and they wanted it crystal clear, so they not only defined "premises," but further defined what are NOT premises, just in case another AG with reading comprehension difficulties came along.

    There is not another, conflicting statute, to my knowledge, but a few of the sneaky nervous nellies in the 2007 legislature did manage to insert an amendment to the Education Code, at Section 37.125, that creates a new offense if one, "in a manner intended to cause alarm or personal injury....intentionally exhibits, uses or threatens to exhibit or use a firearm..." on school property. It's a Third Degree Felony, so keep your pistol concealed round the grounds!

  8. #23
    Member Array cmurphy's Avatar
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    Because the LEOs don't know the law, I keep a paper copy of, both basic gun laws (concealed in a vehicle) and mis-understood gun laws (educational property) in my glove box...

    The officer might not care, but he is going to get a chance to read them.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiwood View Post
    I gave the State Trooper my dl and carry permit and he asked if I was armed, I told him I was and he told me I couldn't be armed on school property.
    That's where you went wrong. You notified him you were armed, and he immediately went on a fishing expedition for misdemeanors and felonies. You're concerned about complying with the law, but he's not. Keep in mind there's no longer any penalty for failure to display the CHL in Texas. Notifying that you had a firearm, during a stop for registration, could have gotten you pulled out of the car, treated like some common thug, searched on the hood of your car, car impounded, hauled off to jail, gun seized (no telling when you'd get it back and how much effort it would take), brought up on trumped up charges they know full well will be eventually dismissed, plus plenty of money you'd have to dole out to an attorney. You wouldn't be the first to take that ride in Texas for possession in a school parking lot. Looks like you almost got to take the ride.

    Sure sure, listen to everyone tell you how that could never happen. The law is so on your side! You'd surely beat that rap. Listen to them assure you how excellent it was for you to be so cooperative and concerned for the safety and well being of this nice cop. The DPS is flagrantly violating that same 411 code that prompted you to so obediently display your CHL and so readily admit you were armed. The DPS violates this same section of code every day, and you have even more explicit protection from prosecution than they do. Why comply with this unconstitutional law at all? Don't display the CHL. Don't notify you're armed. Don't talk to the police.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmurphy View Post
    Because the LEOs don't know the law, I keep a paper copy of, both basic gun laws (concealed in a vehicle) and mis-understood gun laws (educational property) in my glove box...

    The officer might not care, but he is going to get a chance to read them.
    You think he hasn't already had a chance to read the laws he's enforcing? You think he hasn't already had a chance to read our constitution? You think any of that matters to him even if he were to read it?

  11. #26
    Member Array cmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    You think he hasn't already had a chance to read the laws he's enforcing? You think he hasn't already had a chance to read our constitution? You think any of that matters to him even if he were to read it?
    My bet is that if it came to that, he/she would have no interest in reading any of it.. My hope is that I could talk them in to taking a look.

    It can't hurt to have them handy.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmurphy View Post
    My bet is that if it came to that, he/she would have no interest in reading any of it.. My hope is that I could talk them in to taking a look.

    It can't hurt to have them handy.
    I think it was on this forum I read a story where several guys decided to stop their car in a school parking lot at night. I don't recall why they did. It was something innocuous like changing drivers or something.

    It drew the attention of a cop. He stopped and asked for ID. The guy gave him the DL, CHL, and proudly informed he was armed. The cop told him it was against the law to possess in a school parking lot. He ignored the guy when he told him otherwise. Hauled him off to jail. The DA also ignored him before the hearing that it wasn't against the law. He refused to read the law. He was the DA. He didn't need to read the law. The judge was prepared to railroad him at his first hearing and told him to shut up and get a lawyer. Finally, he was able to convince the judge to actually listen and actually read the law. When he read the law, he still wouldn't believe it. He had to get the DA to read his copy of the law. Then the judge finally dismissed the charge.

    Did that get back the firearm? No. Separate battle for that. Did that clear the arrest record? No. Separate battle for that. Did that clear up any misunderstanding over the status of the CHL? No. Separate battle for that. Did that get his car back had it been impounded? No. Separate battle for that. Did that clear up attorney fees for the criminal charge and all the other issues? No. Did the dismissal correct all the embarrassment, other financial expenses, loss of freedom, loss of work, and other impact for false arrest? No, again that would all be a separate battle that he'd have to pay hefty costs to fight.

    Yep, it's perfectly legal with a CHL to possess a gun in a school parking lot. Just like it's perfectly legal to have your gun print through your shirt or have the wind blow up your shirt and expose it. As long as you're not afraid of taking that ride, go ahead and fess up to the gun. Have you're little law book handy. You'll beat the rap, no problem. Errrr ... sort of.

    Until we repeal 46.02 along with all these other onerous restrictions, or until we stand up to the legislature and the police in court, we exercise our rights at great peril even in Texas.

  13. #28
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    Look on page 40 of your Texas Concealed Handgun Laws book. At the bottom of the page it list Premises as "a building or portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area". Yes this is a quote, I suggest you carry your book in your car, I plan to.
    Keep in mind that this only applies to statutorily prohibited locations. It does not apply to private property that is posted with valid 30.06 signs. Private property owners can post their entire property if they wish, parking lots and all.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLeVick View Post
    Yet another thing that drives me wild. Section 30.06 signs are only valid as to "premises," as premises are defined under the statute, i.e., "buildings or portions of buildings." You can't make a parking lot a premises. In fact, parking lots are expressly defined OUT of being premises under the statute. The Plano school board is getting bad legal advice, or no legal advice, or they are ignoring legal advice.

    For several years, Texas Tech University had miniature 30.06 signs posted all over campus, and even along Indiana Avenue, running through campus. They were invalid for both size and location. Chief General Counsel at Tech is a friend, and when I contacted him about it, he said, "I know, I know; I've told the Regents many times." He finally got through to them, and the signs are down. Even the campus police now know that folks with CHLs can carry on campus. Some folks are educable, but it may take time and effort...
    So you mean to tell me that I can conceal on campus here at Tech?

    That would make my day a ton better, not having to remember to remove my firearm every time I have to go back to class.

    Edit: Yesterday at the entrance to the parking lot at 19th and flint I noticed a sign that said something to the effect of "The unlicensed possession of a firearm on these premises, etc..." I guess they took down the 30.06 signs and replaced them with these, though they look to be a few years old.
    Last edited by redraider10; April 22nd, 2010 at 08:49 AM. Reason: new info

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by redraider10 View Post
    So you mean to tell me that I can conceal on campus here at Tech?

    Edit: Yesterday at the entrance to the parking lot at 19th and flint I noticed a sign that said something to the effect of "The unlicensed possession of a firearm on these premises, etc..." I guess they took down the 30.06 signs and replaced them with these, though they look to be a few years old.
    yes, just don't go into a building

    and I remember the signs when I was down there and I remember when they got removed too

    and there is no other provision about the definition of premises, for schools its a building or part of a building...period

    as for businesses/individuals putting up 30.06 signs....they can do that all they want, the 30.06 statute is applicable on parking lots for private property owners (currently under state law):

    Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
    (1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
    (2) received notice that:
    (A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
    (B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

    JohnLeVick, maybe we can meet up sometime, I'm in the other metropolis of the panhandle north of you
    LEO/CHL
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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