Just called Mall of America and they said "No guns."
This is a discussion on Just called Mall of America and they said "No guns." within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is what the true "landlord of the Mall says"
Originally posted by Gecko45 Don’t worry Lucy, you’ll never have to confront me as long ...
April 19th, 2010 08:01 PM
This is what the true "landlord of the Mall says"
Originally posted by Gecko45
Don’t worry Lucy, you’ll never have to confront me as long as you stay on the right side of the law. And that’s the govts law and MY law, when your on territory I’m “working.”
Until the day you cross that line, I’ll keep watching over and protecting you. that’s my job. The day you go bad, is when you better watch out. That is also my job.
April 19th, 2010 08:06 PM
Yep, Missouri is pretty clear too. Violation of carrying in a posted area is not a criminal act.
There are basically 17 places where you can not carry a concealed weapon. Federally posted areas, churches, schools, government buildings, courthouses, jails, amusement parks, sports arena's etc.
2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises.
If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry endorsement for a period of three years.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
April 19th, 2010 08:16 PM
HoustonRaven, the point that twelveeight is making is not that private property owners don't have rights, they do. He is showing what MN laws say how the property owners legally can exercise those rights. MOA does not follow MN law. Their entrances are improperly posted in several different ways. The location is not correct, not all entrances are posted, the size of the signs are incorrect. Now, when discovered and they ask you to leave they have properly followed MN law and one must do so, or the trespassing aspects of the law come into effect, but even then for a first offense the fine is only $25. Our law protects both the property owner and the permit holder because it very clearly defines what the responsibilities of both parties are.
April 20th, 2010 10:29 AM
Basically correct, although if one wanted to walk around the parking lot with their gun, they could-(except for schools--and of course post offices). The law clearly defines both carry and possession.
Originally Posted by mrjam2jab
Correct. I merely included that statement to negate any arguments relating specifically to local laws or ordinances--a point I had hoped I made clear in my previous post.
Preemption doesn't affect private businesses....only local govt agencies.
April 20th, 2010 10:45 AM
True to a point. I think it is important to keep in mind though, that in situations where a law has been clearly stipulated, the argument "Just as you have the ultimate say what can and cannot be brought on your property, so do the property owners of shopping centers, malls, office buildings, etc." is not always correct. Private establishments cannot, for example, bar law enforcement from carrying on their property, or even being there if ordered by the court.
Originally Posted by HoustonRaven
While many would often like to believe that property owner's rights trump all; they in fact do not in the eyes of the law--take for example fire codes or mandatory inspections, etc...--or even zoning ordinances: You would like to have 30 rusty cars on your property, but I'm guessing in a lot of locales that's not going to happen.
And in discussing Supreme Court decisions, I feel it would be an upward battle to get a case even heard in a lower court that argues against a clearly written statute with arguable "rights" on both sides of the coin.
Exactly. I'm trying to point out the realities of the legal status currently in the State of Minnesota as specifically related to the Mall of America. It is important to always distinguish what one feels it "Should Be" with what actually "Is".
Originally Posted by Chunkychuck
April 20th, 2010 10:54 AM
Because of the nature of my job, I am in the ramps of MoA a LOT! Carry all the time out there. They can't say boo. I rarely go in that place. When that place gets busy people turn into animals and I avoid those situations.
On a similar note, both my bank and a travel center I visited this weekend in MN have signs but they were placed in a way that were not visible until I was leaving the buildings. The sign at the bank was behind a white board and the one at the travel center was not even facing towards people entering into the establishment. Not my fault they didn't follow the laws when they posted their signs.
"I dont like repeat offenders...I like DEAD offenders."-Ted Nugent
April 21st, 2010 12:36 PM
Maybe they are posting the sign incorrectly on purpose to appease those scared of guns. Who knows.
April 24th, 2010 09:32 AM
I think the same thing. As long as SOME sign is up, the anti gun people feel safe.
Originally Posted by yoyomeng
April 24th, 2010 09:20 PM
Any property owner can ask you to leave for any reason. So can the MOA.
The key is that the police can't do anything except escort you out if you are asked to leave. What you are doing is not illegal unless you refuse to leave, then it is a $25 petty misdemeanor trespass violation.
I don't OC there because I don't want the attention, but I do carry. This place is crawling with gangbangers and wannabes. The bus that runs late from the mall to Minneapolis is so bad they have transit cops on it and a patrol car following to take the people who are arrested. The later you are there, the worse it is. If the Mall wanted to keep things safe, they'd keep these guys out. The only shooting I've ever heard of at the mall was between rival gangs at Camp Sniper, uh, Snoopy.
An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay
April 24th, 2010 09:37 PM
Amen! I've been CC'ing for 8 years, reading various forums such as this one off and on over those same 8 years and there is still one thing I haven't figured out. I can't figure out why some people choose to ask an establishment if they can carry, or worse yet, notify a business or property owner that the premises are not posted properly.
Originally Posted by REVMAN
I'll bet that at least nine times out of ten, the person you're asking doesn't have a clue what the law actually is; they're just going by what they think it is, what they think it should be, or by what they heard from a friend of their next door neighbors' brother. As far as I'm concerned, you shouldn't even ask a cop about the law, they don't know all the laws in that much detail. I don't trust instructors either. There is so much misinformation out there. Look up the CCW law yourself on your state legislature website and learn it. If you're carrying within the bounds of state law, just remain quiet, carry, and go about your business.
Now on to improper signage.
Arizona just recently changed the law to make concealed carry in bars and in restaurants that serve alcohol legal. The manager of a sports bar near me was publicly opposed and worked to kill the bill in the legislature. A restaurant or bar may prohibit carry but the signage must comply with the statute and the signage is available free of charge from the state. Now I would assume that since the manager of this sports bar was actively involved in opposing this law, that she is aware of the proper signage requirements. Lo and behold, the new law took effect and the signage that she posted is not even close to complying with the statute. I'm convinced that some business owners knowingly post improperly to make their anti-gun customers feel all warm and cuddly inside while still allowing knowledgeable CC'ers to patronize their establishment.
I'm sure that there are some business owners that post anti-freedom signs with no idea of what the proper requirements are. Let's not educate them.
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188
April 24th, 2010 09:57 PM
Im pretty sure those thugs that hang out by the entrances are armed regardless. Option A) Stay Home. Option B) Hope the thugs are in a good mood. Option C) carry and risk being asked to leave.
My GLOCK goes BANG every time!
April 24th, 2010 10:00 PM
XDM 40cal bitone
NRA EPL Member
"I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world."
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