Firearms banned? (FL question)

This is a discussion on Firearms banned? (FL question) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A letter to the Martin County Attorney in the mail today: Dear Sir: While recently visiting Leighton Park in Palm City, I noticed the sign ...

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Thread: Firearms banned? (FL question)

  1. #31
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    A letter to the Martin County Attorney in the mail today:

    Dear Sir:

    While recently visiting Leighton Park in Palm City, I noticed the sign at the entrance states no firearms are permitted. This seems to be in conflict with State law regarding the lawful carrying of concealed weapons.

    Reference Martin County's ordinance: Chapter 17, ARTICLE 1. - IN GENERAL

    Sec. 17.9. - Rules and regulations for Martin County Parks.
    17.9.A. The rules and regulations for Martin County Parks, including all parks, beaches, and beach access strips, and all other facilities or real property managed by the Martin County Parks and Recreation Department, are established as follows:

    2. It shall be unlawful for any person in any County park:

    e. To carry, possess, use, discharge, or have readily available, a firearm, weapon, or electric weapon, unless authorized pursuant to F.S. 790.052.
    (790.052 Carrying concealed firearms; off-duty law enforcement officers.)

    In contradiction of this ordinance, I’d like to refer you to Florida Statute 790.33, Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.
    (1) PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.
    (3) POLICY AND INTENT.--
    (a) It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which regulate firearms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or regulations relating to firearms, ammunition, or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this section or general law; and to require local jurisdictions to enforce state firearms laws.
    Furthermore, I reference Florida Statues 790.06, License to carry concealed weapon or firearm, item 12:
    (12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    F.S 125.01(1) (f) provides the County authority to: “Provide parks, preserves, playgrounds, recreation areas, libraries, museums, historical commissions, and other recreation and cultural facilities and programs.”

    Seeing as public parks and recreational areas are not listed in the areas where concealed carry is prohibited by State law, it appears to me that Martin County has no authority to restrict the lawful carrying of concealed firearms other than what is stated in 790.06.

    While I wish to remain a law-abiding citizen but do not wish to give up my lawful right to carry a concealed weapon, I am asking if there is any legal basis for Martin County to exclude legal firearms carry from its parks. If so, please respond to me with the ordinance, code, or law so that I can take this matter up further with the State General Attorney.

    However, if there is no legal basis for the County ordinance exceeding the State statues, please inform me of what corrective measures Martin County intends to take as far as removing any “null and void” ordinances and/or signage prohibiting lawful carrying of concealed weapons.

    Respectfully,

    (OldVet)

    I will post the response (assuming I receive one) when I receive it.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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  3. #32
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    Red face And the County Attorney's answer is, "huh?"

    Unless something else arises, a final update to this issue.

    As stated earlier, I sent a letter to the Martin County Attorney, who sent a letter to me asking that I call him to discuss the matter. So I did moments ago.

    His primary concern was, understandably, spending time and manpower to resolve my concerns (county ordinance banning firearms in public parks). (I thought that's what interns were for?) He admitted to not knowing the answer to my concern. Pretty weak answer for a County Attorney, in my opinion, who could have asked any number of people on the state's preemptive statute on firearms. He did admit that the sign is probably decades old and may very well be outdated (as is the still current ordinance), and he also tossed in the ever-obvious "if you keep your weapon concealed, no one will know the difference." How's that for legal opinion?

    I explained that my biggest concern was someone, by whatever means, seeing or assuming I have a firearm, calling in an overzealous deputy, who then hauls me away, and I end up spending my hard-earned money to defend myself against an outdated and illegal county ordinance. It could happen, and I (we) don't need that kind of hassle.

    Hearing his sweat dripping on the floor as he pondered having to explain to the county commisioners why he's having to expend money and manpower, I decided to, essentially, let him off the hook by saying I would research the state law/county odinance conflict myself.

    I shall forward a letter from then-State Attorney Charles Crist to the Indian County Sheriff discussing the state's legal opinion of preemption, which clearly shows the state legislature controls firearm regulation, not counties or municipalities and, in the IR County case, that counties may not set firearm restrictions above and beyond state law.

    Thank you, MattInFla , for the link to Crist's letter (see post #14). The letter in itself makes this a dead issue. I'm sure the Martin County Attorney will agree. Now, if I can just convince the little old ladies and overzealous deputies.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    My son's Little League complex has a painted sign that say's
    No Alcohol
    No Firearms
    No Profanity
    No skateboarding

    In Texas we only have to abide by 51% and 30.06 signage so I CC at the park anyway.

  5. #34
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhamrichard View Post
    This is one thing I'm curious about.. It's a public park, public property, and you aren't breaking any laws.. CAN you (legally) be asked to leave public land when your doing nothing wrong, and under what authority.
    A public area that is not specifically off limits by law is owned by the public, so no, by law you can't be asked to leave or face trespassing.

    That said, I would leave if asked by a LEO and take it up with their department. It's not worth being in the right and spending a night in jail to be released and charges dropped.
    http://www.saf.org/ --- Fighting for American's Gun Rights
    http://GeorgiaCarry.org --- Fighting for Georgian's Gun Rights.
    http://Georgiapacking.org --- Discussion of Georgia Gun Laws.

  6. #35
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    David one; Goliath nothing...

    Here is the body of an e-mail I received from the Martin County Attorney regarding the county ordinance prohibiting firearms in parks:

    "Thank you for your understanding. I will include your email with our park ordinance file for the next time the park regulations are revised or considered. I also spoke with (my ommission), the Sheriff’s attorney, and he advised me that the deputies have been instructed to enforce only the state law."

    Shows you can't (shouldn't) believe everything you see on signs. For the record, my county/city does not have a sign prohibiting firearms in parks.

    While I'm sure it will be awhile before the signs are removed (if ever), at least the County Attorney is aware that the ordinance is, as the state puts it, "null and void," as am I.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    as has been said...the signs do not pertain to concealed weapons and firearms license holders...they are pertinent to others who may carry a firearm onto the property (as in hunting firearms or even unloaded firearms)...there are no restrictions in florida other than those listed in the statute and previously posted...

    it is legal to carry in private businesses with no firearm signs but you would be required to leave if asked or face trespass...if you are concealed this isnt really an issue as they would neve know you were carrying....

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