Firearms banned? (FL question)

This is a discussion on Firearms banned? (FL question) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's the deal: Took my boat to the local public boat ramp to show (it's for sale), and I see on the sign at the ...

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Thread: Firearms banned? (FL question)

  1. #1
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    Question Firearms banned? (FL question)

    Here's the deal:
    Took my boat to the local public boat ramp to show (it's for sale), and I see on the sign at the entrance "No Firearms" along with no alcohol, etc.

    I run a mental scan of areas off-limits to CC and don't recall anything about CC being banned at a public boat ramp, although it is part of a park. I'm thinking, what if I wanted to take my firearm out on the boat with me?

    Any specifics anyone can quote while I continue to research?

    Please--no "concealed is concealed" as that doesn't make it legal regardless.
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    Signage in Florida carries with it no weight under the law.

    Per the Florida Dept. of Ag. website:

    Possession Restrictions
    The following is a list of places where you are restricted from carrying a weapon or firearm even if you have a license. Please note that this is a simplified list. The places marked by an asterisk (*) may have exceptions or additional restrictions. See Section 790.06 (12), Florida Statutes for a complete listing.

    any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
    any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
    any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse
    any courtroom*
    any polling place
    any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
    any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
    any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
    any school administration building
    any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*
    any elementary or secondary school facility
    any area technical center
    any college or university facility*
    inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*
    any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law
    I don't see anything there that covers the park or a boat ramp.

    Matt
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    That's pretty much what I've come up with, Matt. There is a Statue No. on the sign that I didn't copy down but will next time I go by. I'd like to see what it quotes. Don't recall if it was state, city or what. Will check though.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    If it quotes anything but a state statute, it's wrong - Florida's pre-emption laws specifically prohibit local jurisdictions from enacting laws that restrict possession or carry of firearms beyond the limitations included in state law.

    Matt
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    I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I know Florida statute(s) does/do allow the Department of Environment Protection (DEP) to make additional restrictions/definitions on what's considered legal. The link to DEP further links to the Florida statutes granting it permission(s). Here's something I had posted a while back and I've highlighted the relevant area:

    Quote Originally Posted by cz75luver View Post
    I believe the only park that was off the list of approved places to carry was national parks, but now that that has changed, you're good to go most anywhere.

    There are to parts to carrying in state parks, though, which fall under Florida Statute 790.25 and the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) rule 62D-2.014 and reading the Florida Firearms book, it's up to a test case as to which one wins. The DEP rule is more restrictive than 790.25, but it's really not bad and actually makes sense.

    Here's the main part of 62D-2.014:

    "Weapons shall at all times be in possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks. Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container."

    Basically, if it's not on you, it's in a locked container so that kids and the like do not get into it.

    Here are the links:
    https://www.flrules.org/Gateway/View...asp?id=4056848

    Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

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    If this park was part of a wildlife management area, then the sign may have to be obeyed.

    I was thinking wildlife management areas had recently been removed from the restricted list, but maybe not.
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    Probablly another local board trying to enforce laws not authorized by State Law.

    Capt. Art

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    It's only a public boat ramp, and you can carry concealed...no problem.
    There is no law that includes public boat ramps...

    I've carried on several of them.
    Ignore the sign...just don't be drinking as they can see that and it will bring attention to yourself...you don't want that.

    Even if discovered, you can only be asked to leave.
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    re

    keep in mind that in some of the larger municipalities in florida cities can ordinance certain rules pertaining to firearms - this could be the case here - if this is a city facility they can post the area with no firearms allowed just as a business can do so - there is a county park where i live that has an outdoor range located within park boundries and they have very strict rules about bringing and displaying firearms within the facility - i would suspect you are dealing with an ordinance at the boat ramp if it is city or county property - an attorney or the sheriffs office could tell you for sure
    "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

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    This is one thing I'm curious about.. It's a public park, public property, and you aren't breaking any laws.. CAN you (legally) be asked to leave public land when your doing nothing wrong, and under what authority.

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    re

    this is tuff area to understand unless you can understand all the here to fores and legal terms - as i understand it florida state law takes precedent over all county and city ordinances with regard to several areas of firearm regulations but at the same time attorneys tell me that there are gray areas or loopholes cities and counties can use to control weapons in certain instances such as city or county property
    it is an area that i am going to investigate with the sheriff of broward and dade county just to try and clarify - within city limits there may be even more unknowns
    "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hipthunder View Post
    keep in mind that in some of the larger municipalities in florida cities can ordinance certain rules pertaining to firearms - this could be the case here - if this is a city facility they can post the area with no firearms allowed just as a business can do so - there is a county park where i live that has an outdoor range located within park boundries and they have very strict rules about bringing and displaying firearms within the facility - i would suspect you are dealing with an ordinance at the boat ramp if it is city or county property - an attorney or the sheriffs office could tell you for sure
    Simply not true!

    Give us ONE example...I'm always up for a lesson.

    Special Note: Signs in FL mean nothing, they do NOT carry the force of law.



    Here are the places one cannot carry in FL...

    Places off-limits when carrying:
    1. any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
    2. any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
    3. any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse
    4. any courtroom*
    5. any polling place
    6. any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
    7. any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
    8. any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
    9. any school administration building
    10. any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*
    11. any elementary or secondary school facility
    12. any area technical center
    13. any college or university facility*
    14. inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*
    15. any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

    No city or county in our state can add to this list...
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipthunder View Post
    keep in mind that in some of the larger municipalities in florida cities can ordinance certain rules pertaining to firearms - this could be the case here - if this is a city facility they can post the area with no firearms allowed just as a business can do so - there is a county park where i live that has an outdoor range located within park boundries and they have very strict rules about bringing and displaying firearms within the facility - i would suspect you are dealing with an ordinance at the boat ramp if it is city or county property - an attorney or the sheriffs office could tell you for sure
    I'll second Retsupt. Alot of the cities try to make their own rules but they can't over-rule the state. There are quite a few that have been forced to remove such signage (seems south fl is the worst) as noted on another forum dealing specifically with florida. It usually gets into a "we'll get back to you" when they get notified of their violation of state law and they stall as long as they can, but are forced to remove the "No Firearms" part or change it to "No Illegally Carried Firearms".
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    Quote Originally Posted by hipthunder View Post
    keep in mind that in some of the larger municipalities in florida cities can ordinance certain rules pertaining to firearms - this could be the case here - if this is a city facility they can post the area with no firearms allowed just as a business can do so - there is a county park where i live that has an outdoor range located within park boundries and they have very strict rules about bringing and displaying firearms within the facility - i would suspect you are dealing with an ordinance at the boat ramp if it is city or county property - an attorney or the sheriffs office could tell you for sure
    Actually, they cannot. See Florida Statutes, 790.33

    "(1) PREEMPTION.– Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in
    conflict with this subsection and are prohibited."
    Here is a letter from then Attorney General Crist which explains the matter in some detail:

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/a...Preemption.pdf

    Note particularly:

    Thus, in addition to expressly preempting the field of firearm regulation to the state, the Legislature has enacted legislation making it a crime to discharge firearms in any public place, with specified exceptions. It is well settled that absent a general law stating otherwise, local governments have no authority to regulate firearms in any manner.[3] Attempts to circumvent this preemption of firearm regulation have not been allowed.[4] Thus, despite the county’s concerns for the health, safety and welfare of its citizens, it may not enact an ordinance regulating the use of firearms.[5]
    There is a state law that allows each county to set the waiting period for purchase of a handgun, but that is permitted under 790.33 only because a state law expressly permits it.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    re

    calm down guys........my point is that i know state law takes precedent - i said that if you read the post - but it is tried by certain localities even though it may be illegal - below is an article from the Palm Beach Post about this very issue - they had laws on the books for years concerning firearms in parks and until somebody challenged it and had it removed folks were under the impression the county had the right to ban firearms from this particular park......................



    Article....March 3 2010 Palm Beach Post

    It's now legal to bring a gun to parks where children play in Brevard County. The county attorney just lifted a ban on guns in public parks. He says the county had no authority to ban them.

    The county attorney found that county ordinance banning guns from parks conflicted with state law, which allows guns but doesn't allow you to fire them. It's a tricky issue, though, with parents.

    Friends Caroline Rowe and Brooke Girard say they expect their kids to be safe when they come to a Brevard County park, but when it comes to whether visitors should be allowed to bring firearms they have differing opinions.

    "There is no reason why there should be any weapons permitted at a park," Girard said.

    "I'm just a firm believer in the government trying to strip away our rights and that's just one more thing they can strip away," Rowe said.

    The county has had rules on the books for years banning firearms from parks. But, recently, Titusville resident David Pocock and a Fort Myers attorney challenged the rule questioning whether citizens had to give up their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms while visiting public parks.

    A legal analysis determined the county law was in conflict with state laws, which determine where guns could be banned. County commissioners have begun the process of repealing the ban.

    "I don't like guns personally," said Rowe, who said there shouldn't be any reason to bring a gun to a park but doesn't think the rule would prevent someone from bringing it. "I want my kids to be safe, but I think people with permits have gone through the steps. They probably are not dangerous. It's the people without, they are going to have them and you are not going to see them anyway."

    Her friend believes the restriction should be kept.

    "Definitely should not be permitted at a park for sure. It makes me angry. As a parent, it really does," Girard said.

    The county attorney did suggest that commissioners could ask legislators to add parks to the list of places where guns are already banned by state law.

    ************************************************** **

    so you see my friends it can and is done - brevard county just got busted for doing though and was forced to remove the ban
    makes me wonder how many folks were asked to leave or just didnt go to the park or maybe even arrested - i'm just saying the op's situation at the boat ramp could be similar to this
    "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

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