Question about cwl

Question about cwl

This is a discussion on Question about cwl within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello to all, I'm new to this site. I was reading a topic about concealed carry, I brought this question up to a fellow co-worker, ...

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    New Member Array Redcap81's Avatar
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    Question about cwl

    Hello to all, I'm new to this site. I was reading a topic about concealed carry, I brought this question up to a fellow co-worker, that question led him to call a police officer he knows. The question is if let's say a small hardware store posts a sign "no guns" allowed , do you have to obey this sign. Is there a law in Florida that allows this and how would it be enforced, can you be arrested for " violating" such sign. My co-worker says you have to obey said sign! I argue that if it's not in the state statues it holds no weight, then he brought up the example that a particular gun store has a sign stating no loaded or concealed carry weapons.


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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcap81 View Post
    Hello to all, I'm new to this site. I was reading a topic about concealed carry, I brought this question up to a fellow co-worker, that question led him to call a police officer he knows. The question is if let's say a small hardware store posts a sign "no guns" allowed , do you have to obey this sign. Is there a law in Florida that allows this and how would it be enforced, can you be arrested for " violating" such sign. My co-worker says you have to obey said sign! I argue that if it's not in the state statues it holds no weight, then he brought up the example that a particular gun store has a sign stating no loaded or concealed carry weapons.
    Don't know about FL, but most states have to have uniform signage. If someone sees you, typically you're asked to leave. If you don't leave, then you're trespassing.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcap81 View Post
    Hello to all, I'm new to this site. I was reading a topic about concealed carry, I brought this question up to a fellow co-worker, that question led him to call a police officer he knows. The question is if let's say a small hardware store posts a sign "no guns" allowed , do you have to obey this sign. Is there a law in Florida that allows this and how would it be enforced, can you be arrested for " violating" such sign. My co-worker says you have to obey said sign! I argue that if it's not in the state statues it holds no weight, then he brought up the example that a particular gun store has a sign stating no loaded or concealed carry weapons.
    Florida "No Firearms" signage has no legal weight. You do not have to obey the signage. However, if you do not remain concealed and are found out, you may be asked to leave the business and you then must do as the owner asks and leave. If you do not leave, or leave your weapon in your vehicle, then you may face armed trespass charges or other charges applicable.

    There are places that you cannot carry by state statute.

    Those are listed in the statutes 790.06
    “I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Welcome Redcap...
    Do some more reading here--and read your state's laws. You'll also see that it is best to know/learn the law for yourself, as asking for law enforcement what the law is more likely to get their opinion. In your post, what did the police officer tell your friend? How does that jive with what Tally XD posted with the state code? Which is true?

    Welcome again!
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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    What would make it illegal for a private business to refuse people with guns to enter?

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    My guess: incorporation of the 2d Amendment as a civil right. i.e. denial of entry based on their practice of the 2d Amendment = civil rights case? (that is a stretch).....just spitballing here...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    Welcome...

    from Central Florida!

    You can't see my gun, and I can't see your sign...it's all good!

    ret
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; April 29th, 2010 at 04:47 PM.
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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Check the laws in your state. In SC, a sign like that is backed up by our concealed weapons laws. A word on the side...although the sign may not carry any legal weight, the store owner/manager may refuse service and have someone escorted from the premises at his discretion.

    Now:
    If you're concealing correctly, no one will ever know.
    and/or
    If you're caught, you give a black eye to the rest of the supposedly law-abiding carriers.

    The guy arrested at the Charlotte airport when Obama was there had a CWP. He also had a blue light in his car and was impersonating a LEO. Makes us look real good.

    Final word - As more and more mess hits the blades in more and more places, I become less and less concerned about the pure legalities of where/when I can carry.

    I won't tell you if I'm packing or not, just making some points for both sides.

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    Member Array hipthunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    from Central Florida!

    You cant' see my gun, and I can't see your sign...it's all good!

    ret
    i wear properly so the above rule works for me - but if busted and asked to leave your wise to comply
    "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

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    Ah yes. From what I have noticed there are three ways that a state will deal with this situation
    1) Sign means nuthin. If they spot you and ask you to leave, then you must. Otherwise you are tresspassing and can be charged as such
    2) There is a specific sign (exact wording, font size, location of posting often specified) that they need to post for it to count as a no carry zone
    3) Any sign makes it officially a no carry zone

    I am quite sure FL is smart and #1 applies to you.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
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    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    by the way, here is the no carry zone info for florida in case you have not read through it:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf

    in contrast take a look at TN's no carry zones:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/tennessee.pdf
    We cannot carry in a place that is posted
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
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    Senior Member Array gdm320's Avatar
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    This is one of those instances where it is absolutely critical that you carefully consider the consequences of what you are doing and make every effort to really, really understand Florida law.

    Technically, laws hold no legal weight whatsoever in the State of Florida. A business can post whatever anti-weapons signs they want, but it won't make it illegal for you to carry there.

    Now, if you are spotted you will almost certainly be asked to leave. If you are asked to leave and you refuse to, you're trespassing with a firearm which is a very serious problem.

    This comes back to carefully considering your choice. What are the risks and what are the benefits. I honor property rights of those who don't want me to carry there and simply take my business elsewhere, and when possible I make it clear to the management that I'm doing so for that reason.

    However, in cases where I have no other reasonable choice but to enter one of those places, I believe that "concealed is concealed" and nobody else needs to know. Obviously I don't like doing this, but if I have to visit a mall, for example, I'm not putting myself and my family at risk to appease mall management.

    Whatever you do, think carefully.
    "Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death." -- General Omar Bradley

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    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    Ah yes. From what I have noticed there are three ways that a state will deal with this situation
    1) Sign means nuthin. If they spot you and ask you to leave, then you must. Otherwise you are tresspassing and can be charged as such
    2) There is a specific sign (exact wording, font size, location of posting often specified) that they need to post for it to count as a no carry zone
    3) Any sign makes it officially a no carry zone

    I am quite sure FL is smart and #1 applies to you.
    West Virginia is a #3- "Any sign will do" for instance, at our local hospital there are no signs on any of the entrance doors. The only sign I could find was in the emergency room. It was small, the same font and style of all the other signs very, very easy to miss.

    This is a very bad law in WV so beware.
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    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    My guess: incorporation of the 2d Amendment as a civil right. i.e. denial of entry based on their practice of the 2d Amendment = civil rights case? (that is a stretch).....just spitballing here...
    The 2nd protects you from government infringement, not private. Just as a business can kick you out of their establishment for objectionable language without violating your 1st Amendment rights, so too can they eject you for carrying without violating your 2A rights.

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    The 2nd protects you from government infringement, not private. Just as a business can kick you out of their establishment for objectionable language without violating your 1st Amendment rights, so too can they eject you for carrying without violating your 2A rights.
    That is true now....however, the 2A has yet to be incorporated to be recognized as a civil right.

    That said, objectionable language <> someone legally carrying a firearm.

    This is all hypothetical at this point. You are correct in your first point; after incorporation, your last point may be suspect.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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