This is a discussion on Ruger LCR Kicks! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by wmhawth It's a mistake for women to think that because they are petite they need to get the lightest possible gun to ...
The husband had gone out and bought his wife a S&W Airweight .38 (!) without consulting with her on anything...And told her this is YOUR gun.
Well guess what...Neither he nor she can shoot that thing for anything.
The grip is way too small, the weight is far too light to handle with combat _accuracy_ even light target loads never mind defensive +P ammo (!)...And most important of all the sight radius is far too short for a novice shooter.
I had her shoot the same ammo out of a full steel 4" barrel J frame and guess what...She can hit better than he can, and she's only shot a handgun just once before ever in her life. While he owns multiple revolvers and has been shooting for some 20 yrs. Go figure.
I told them what I tell others:
* Handguns are shooter specific. Like shoes,one size does not fit all.
* Short sight radius handguns are advanced tools intended for very specific application and/or experienced and well practiced shooters.
* Do not buy what works for some other person because some other person says it works for them!
Try everything and anything before you spend money on a gun.
In my students case she wound up very much preferring my full steel 9MM 1911 and was very accurate with it...Out to 15 ft.!
That was her functional range...Which for being a new shooter was very good. We started at .22 and went up to the 1911 9MM and then tried that .38. It was a struggle for them both.
You should have seen dudes face when he shot it, at 15' , and his pattern overall looked as though he'd been shooting 000 buck from 50 yds. away.
With shooting people forget or don't know that mass of the firearm is a direct function of the amount of recoil as felt by energy transfer.
The lighter the gun the greater the recoil will be.
As well the physically smaller & compact in size the gun the less comfortable the shot will be and difficult to grip the gun without regard to the guns mass.
This is a fact of physics without any dependence at all on gender, age or even shooters fitness/strength.
Last item; DO NOT think to carry or keep at home a gun intended to defend your life with that you cannot be functional with not just the first shot but across it's entire capacity.
Functional means combat accurate, not bullseye target shooting, of an ~8" diameter at 21 ft.
If your grouping is within that area then you pass. If your grouping is wider than that area then you fail for that distance and either need to train or seek a gun you can shoot reliably...Or plan to keep all attackers at distances _closer_ to you than 21' so that you can actually hit them (!).
8" is the approximate size of most human beings vitals at the chest (Heart, lungs, liver & spleen)
21' is the not an average distance based on any stats nor that of Dennis Tueller but rather is an arbitrary distance set to test handgun accuracy at more common justifiable shooting distance as for civilians. Yes some shootings for civilians have occurred at greater than 21'. But more so threat contact begins at 21' or less up to belly touching belly distance.
So for basic shooter skill testing 8" @ 21' is a good measure of function. I use it often.
- Janq is generally not a fan of sub-compact & lightweight handguns
Further I wish more people regardless of geneder would think as you have stated above.
Your 'vacation' will be a real investment in the rest of your life and living.
That is just as useful if not more so than say going on a cruise to sleep in and drink margaritas.
For a starting point (but not the only one) toward locating a certified instructor go here:
NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training
Click on "Find a Course" for a screen that will allow you to locate specific instructors within your region/state/zip code.
Courses that may fit your interests include:
* NRA First Steps - Pistol
* NRA Basic Pistol Shooting
* NRA Home Firearm Safety Course
* NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside The Home Course
* Refuse To Be A Victim® Seminars
By education, be it through the NRA or some other_certified_ instructor of some regard, you will provide yourself with the tools to better save your own life. Plain and simple.
Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum!
Instructor as certified in multiple areas by multiple orgs including the NRA and Smith & Wesson
I taught a 67 year old lady with an old injured wrist that had never fired before. She had an LCR and I thought there was no way she was going to be able to handle it. I tried to get her to qualify left handed. She shot with her injured side and did just fine.
The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, World Drifter
Solid advice thus far. I would say more practice is needed to become accurate with a snubbie vs a semi-automatic.
What you should do, is fire a few rounds from a .44 magnum, and then that .38 won't seem like such a big deal.
I am not a fan of light weight guns and am 6' 2" 230lbs. If you liked everything else about the gun, you might look into some 148g wad cutters. Usually less recoil. Would be better for range work and would be better than nothing in a self defense situation.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato
If anything start small at .22LR and work up, not down.
.44 Magnum is a hunters round for large and dangerous game (!).
Not even .357 Magnum would be appropriate, which sadly is what my client from Sunday had her husband force her into for her 'intro to guns'....Five years ago when she shot for the first and last time any gun. She reported that just three rounds was all she could handle and that caused her wrist and hand pain for weeks as well as five years later great anxiety about the "gun noise" and physical nervousness about pulling the trigger.
Do not do this to people, please.
It only jacks them up.
As to snubbie vs. semi-auto...There is no comparison.
Is better shorter sight radius (sub-compact aka 'snubbie') vs. longer sight radius (compact and fullsize).
A 2" barrel gun be it revolver or autoloader is gonna be harder to hit with at any given distance beyond 6' than the exact same gun with a 4" barrel, again be it revolver or autoloader,over the same distance. And especially so at increased distance (See my 8" target at 21' item from above).
Be the gun a Chief's Special or a Colt Defender.
Hitting with either is an advanced skill requirement as beyond distances where one can see and count the other persons skin pores.
S&W Model 36 Chiefs Special 'J Frame' @ 1.875" barrel
Source - Model 36 "Chief's Special" Smith & Wesson .38 Special Snubby
Colt 'Defender' @ 3” Barrel
[I have one of these and have been carryign it among other 1911s for years...It's a handful not for a beginner/novice shooter even as it is small, light and relatively easy to conceal]
Image source - Colt Defender - TheFiringLine Forums
I mention this all with only one thought in mind; New shooters!
If I had a dollar for how many times I've talked to someone and said hey lets go to the range or hey have you ever shot a gun for them to report back yeah I went this one time and <Fill in the blank> gave me this really big <size or chamber> gun and I haven't shot anything since.
Be it giving new shooters a hunting caliber rifle, or handing them a 3" Magnum 12 GA or handing them even a 1911 in .45 ACP (not huge but a bit much for a new shooter trying to build on the basics) people are doing folks no favors at all handing them anything other than a .22LR (optimal) to start with...And as in a case like this .38 or 9mm as for self defense.
The person can later down the road with experience work themself up to larger calibers if they wish and with that more advanced guns be they small, light or large.
Not cool. ^^
- New Shooters
1st, welcome to DC. 2nd, everyone has given great advice. I'd recommend all that they've said and I'd also recommend that you ignore anyone at the range that isn't respectful of your sincere intent to be well armed/well protected. You have the right to do so and figuring it out can be challenging, so please ignore anyone who's not truly helping you.
Other than that, smile and enjoy the ride. We're glad to have you and help you here.
M&P Shield9; RIA 1911 Tactical 9mm;...many long guns
Torri2cutie1, even though I am a 6' 1" and 155 pound male, and have been shooting firearms for over 40 years, I recently started to shoot a very similar gun as your LCR: my S&W Airweight Mdl 442 snubnose revolver. (My 442 is fed with run-of-the-mill .38SPL 132GR ammo [in other words, we are not talking "high powered" +P .38 ammo here]).
While I fully realized that firing a 15oz .38SPL would not be pleasant, what I didn't quite realize was just how unpleasant: it was downright painful, and I was actually in fear that I was about to sustain nerve damage to my hand if I shot more than a few rounds.
I'm afraid the only solution I have found to excessive recoil is to buy a heavier gun that has a soft, full rubber grip. In fact, my wife has a 23oz stainless version of my own revolver, and while the recoil is snappy, it is not painful or abusive (gun shown below).
You can also try a medium size/weight 9mm semi-auto (not one of the new ultra-lightweight/ultra-tiny ones either!), and it will be easy on you recoil-wise, but I have found that new shooters can get easily confused with autos, which can be quite dangerous (in fact, my wife is scared of semi-autos, because she does not fully understand them -- a revolver is almost self explanatory, and much, much harder for an inexperienced person to have a negligent discharge with).
Unless you want to and are willing to practice a lot with a semi-auto (including taking a class on it), stick with a medium weight revolver.
My wife "pinklady" if you read her posts just went through the whole "which gun should I get" thing also. She had the advantage of trying my guns tho. She is recoil sensitive, does not have the hand strength to cycle the slide on most semi-auto's and does feel comfortable with them. She wanted a revolver. I have three. A Ruger GP100, 4 inch in 357 magnum, a Ruger SP101, 3 inch, and a Ruger LCR.
She can't handle the LCR. She's had carpel tunnel surgery on both wrist. She loves the GP100 but is too big to carry obviously.
She's been carrying the 3" SP101 and likes shooting it, but is wanting something a little lighter (but not as light as the LCR) for herself.
She finally found a 1970's S&W model 60 in 38 special, 2". It's about 20 oz. all steel, 5 shot, not as big and heavy as the SP101, but not as light as the LCR.
I put it on layaway for her.
Glock 26 XD9sc
Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP
General rule is the smaller/lighter the gun the more recoil. It's the price you pay. You can mitigate it by taking a higher grip on the gun, not shooting +p loads, and getting LG405 laser grips with the recoil pocket.
If you can't shoot it then don't carry it.
Torri- Did the LCR you fired have the Hogue rubber grip, or the Crimson Trace laser grip? My LCR has the Hogue grip, and it really makes a huge difference in felt recoil. I consider the LCR with Hogue "Tamer" grip to be a very comfortable gun to shoot. I am a very recoil tolerant guy though. The suggestions that you start with a smaller caliber firearm and work your way up are excellent.
Dear Ms. C.,
Please consider printing this comment and delivering it directly into the hands of the owner of the range you've been visiting. You deserve a LOT better treatment than you've received, and he needs to know what is going on when he's not looking....the guys at the shooting range just laugh and say I am out of place or make sexist comments.......I am really new to all this gun stuff and really don't know what I should be trying or asking for when I go to the range. I had an incident which made me decide that I need a gun to protect myself....I tried talking to the guys at the range but really they just shrug me off or laugh and tell me I am in the wrong place. It has definitely made it harder to get a gun. ... My main concern is being able to operate safely and effectively what I have. I don't want a gun just to say I feel secure and have a gun. I want to make sure I am comfortable with what I have and able to use it if needed....Dear Range Owner,I thought about maybe getting a personal trainer so to speak to help me at the range. I have a two weeks vacation and instead of going somewhere I have decided to make it my mission to learn all I can and get comfortable shooting and operating and be able to purchase a gun that I can use safely and know top to bottom. I have been looking for someone to help me that would go to the range with me, help me with holsters and different guns and has a good general knowledge about guns. I am willing to travel in Florida if needed but its hard finding anyone that interested. Going to the range as a single woman is overwhelming and I am met with glares and sarcasm. I have a lot of questions at the range as I am not knowledgeable at all in this field and often am brushed off....
These quotes were posted by one of your customers who is:
- Concerned for her safety;
- Understands the need for proficiency;
- Wants the expertise one would expect at a range;
- Is preparing to protect the children of the fellow she marries (assuming she does).
- Is willing and eager to pay for the assistance she needs.
The louts of which she speaks should be horsewhipped for their patronizing attitude.
I am amazed at this woman's kindness and discretion in not naming your range. Over 5600 of our 40,500 members are active and EVERY LAST STINKIN' ONE OF US would give our teeth for our wife/girlfriend/daughter/mom to take charge of her life as has this woman. For her to meet with the reception your staff have given her is as offensive and counter-productive to all we hold dear as anything I can imagine.
Sir, your staff need a realignment of their manners and customer-service attitudes, or they need to be fired. Seriously - if your wife were to visit your range, would you want her to get this sort of treatment? Your mother? Your daughter?
I hope you will take this seriously, deal with your staff decisively, and apologize to this woman handsomely on their behalf. If you won't, I sincerely hope she publishes the name of your range for all of us to see (and for all of the non-members who view these discussions for years to come).
Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com
Ok from reading this post I will add my 2 cents. What helped me in the start of shooting pistols is a good range safety officer (RSO), and a open field. Not a 2x25 shooting lane. Once you find a pistol that fits you AND your needs. Get a holster and extra mags then go on the hunt for a good RSO. Try your local gun club. Thats what I did at the age of 18.
Best of luck, shoot safe, and keep'um in the ten range.