May 1st, 2010 08:00 PM
I didn't think they were.
Originally Posted by cwblanco
May 1st, 2010 09:27 PM
Legality is a question.
Intent of the company is not.
Good advice on getting an independent interpretation.
state attorney and your local agency to see if your company policy is consistent with arizona law
Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings
You should not have any special fondness for a particular weapon, or anything else, for that matter
May 1st, 2010 09:29 PM
Company policy rules over any state laws plain and simple. Under contract, you have no rights other than those given.
May 1st, 2010 09:30 PM
Sounds to me that as a condition of employment, they don't want you carrying a gun period. Sorry, my guess is that if they caught you, you're history.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
May 1st, 2010 09:43 PM
A felon with a firearm would be a clearly illegal situation, and I'm sure the company would take a dim view of it for all the obvious reasons.
Originally Posted by JayMax
An upstanding citizen carrying a CHL and defensive sidearm, by comparison, is absolutely lawful use and "expressly permitted by state/local law." However, would the company actually react to an employee in the way you think it should, given the implications of that wording? Who can say, except H.R. at the company itself. No attorney's opinion is going to provide any comfort level with respect to how the company actually would treat a CHL/sidearm situation with an employee. I think you're going to have to get that info from the company itself.
Does the company have an anonymous Q&A/suggestions type mechanism for posting sensitive questions of this sort? Some companies do, and the answers typically get handled by HR and posted in the software that handles the system. Short of that, you'll only know if you "break cover" and ask, though the company might well consider immediate termination to be the best way to handle even the asking of such a thing.
Last edited by ccw9mm; May 2nd, 2010 at 06:50 AM.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
May 1st, 2010 10:31 PM
No, it isn't listed in the restricted locations. Unless you can provide where it is listed or what statute applies...
Originally Posted by rangertech
Knowing is half the battle.
May 2nd, 2010 01:14 AM
There is a big difference between state law and company policy. Nothing in AZ law would appear to prohibit you from carrying (of course IANAL and do not know the whole shebang of your employment, so YMMV); however, the employee handbook seems to be pretty clear that it is against company policy and if they catch you, they can terminate you immediately.
So if you want to carry, keep it DEEP concealment and be ready for the consequences if you get made. But you had best weigh if it is worth it in this economy in Phoenix.
May 2nd, 2010 05:13 AM
I am in a very similar situation at my work. Bad neighborhood, worst in the country (FBI says so) just about three blocks north.
Anyhoo, here's a question that you must answer before going too much further into this dilemma:
Given the reason for carrying, and your stated need for continued employment, the use of the firearm would strongly preclude you from future employment if used for any reason, including (especially) in-company-building violence, correct?
I carry. I haven't told anyone. This is to allow them the luxury of "Plausible Deniability" should I have to defend myself on or near Company Premises.
Just saying that you should consider the logical outcomes of your actions, and their respective responsibilities...
That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...
Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.
Convenire Volui Spectatus
May 2nd, 2010 07:29 AM
AZ is an "at will" employment state so your employer could fire you without cause and never say it's because of the gun.
Not true. Carrying in bank's is 100% legal unless they have the proper sign. I know of no bank in my area that does not allow you to carry in a bank.
Originally Posted by rangertech
May 2nd, 2010 10:34 AM
As you can tell by the variety of responses, we're not lawyers.
However, the policy seems pretty clear to me. Carry at the risk of being terminated.
May 2nd, 2010 10:52 AM
Well, I might as well throw my two cents in on this.
The majority of employers are looking at limiting their liability on this issue. If they tell you "We want you to be an armed guard and protect our property" then you can assume that you have permission to carry. Otherwise, you don't.
Don't ask human resources if you can carry. You won't like the answer. It will more than likely be "No". If they give you permission to carry and you are involved in an incident on their property and someone files a lawsuit, they will be named. They probably have more money than you and they gave you permission to arm yourself.
If you are carrying concealed and want to carry at work, do so and keep it concealed. What they don't know won't hurt them.
If you are discovered, then and only then, point out that the wording is vague as to whether or not you could carry and offer the various interpretations of the company's rule that you have seen here. That becomes your defense and possibly saves your job.
"Sorry. I didn't understand. The rule was confusing the way that it was worded. I won't do it again."
That would be my approach if I wanted to carry on the job.
May 2nd, 2010 12:07 PM
All of life is a betting game. I bet on the actions of the other drivers, the integrity of the guy drilling my well, and so on...
One thing to consider is the odds of harm to your family if you disarm for work. That involves the risk of being attacked, and how severe the attack might be, with the likelihood of how your being armed might reduce the severity of the attack, less the legal and financial grief from a shooting or possible brandishing charge.
Against that, consider the risk to your family of losing your job. A good friend lost his job at the new year and will start a new one on May 5th. If you are terminated for carrying, how will that impact your family?
In my assessment (perhaps based on my age - older guys take longer to pick up new jobs), I've made a solid decision to never carry on company property, because sooner or later I would probably be noticed (Murphy works here, too) and the loss of income would be pretty rough on us. Considering the overall crime picture here in the hills, I honestly think the chances of an attack are pretty slim.
Others may come to different conclusions, and I certainly don't wish to imply any lack of respect for them: they're trying to keep their family safe, too! But should you wish to disarm on company properly this may help with some of the doubts which may remain.
May 2nd, 2010 12:20 PM
You got to the essence of the question. Each of us makes our bets every day, every time we get in our car; every time we go to sleep.
Originally Posted by Paymeister
And life is like a Mario Brother's game. One wrong move and it is over or altered for ever. Whether that bad move is diving into a shallow pond head first, driving too fast in the rain, leaving a door unlocked, carrying at work against rules, it takes only ONE mistake.
That's the part our young people don't know as they lack the life experience to understand the twin facts of life: its a gamble; we are not invincible.
May 2nd, 2010 12:42 PM
When you accept employment with a employer, the "bible" is the Employee Handbook. You do not have to be a lawyer to understand what the Handbook says. If it says "no weapons or you may be terminated" that's what it means.
If you decide to violate the published guidelines for employment, if caught, expect to pay the price.
I suspect the same Handbook mentions things like stealing from the company, misuse of company property, etc. You don't need an attorney to understand those restriction do you?
If you decide to carry, and if you ever do need to use your weapon to protect yourself or another employee, you will still face the possibility of loosing your job.
Most of us are in the same type of situation. You just have to keep in mind that for every action there is a reaction. Be prepared for the consequences.
May 2nd, 2010 12:42 PM
From reading the Policy - Sounds like NO Weapons Period
Regardless: in all 50 states the Owner of private property or Legal Representative of such can request that you not carry on their property , and can ask you to leave.
If you refuse - the legal authorities can charge you with
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
By GatorCpE in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: March 4th, 2010, 09:45 PM
By TomChemEngin in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: August 12th, 2009, 08:35 PM
By ROFL SQUAD in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: April 16th, 2009, 10:38 AM
By TX Husker Fan in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: December 11th, 2008, 02:56 PM
Search tags for this page
bank policies prohibiting customers concealed carry
company concealed carry policy
company policy concealed carry
company policy on concealed weapons
concealed carry against company policy
concealed carry and company policy co
concealed carry company policy
concel cary office building
expressly permitted by operative state or local law
how does company policy affect conceal and carry
micrososft's policy on concealed carry
utah concealed carry company policy
Click on a term to search for related topics.
» DefensiveCarry Sponsors