Concealed Carry in the Office and Company Policy. - Page 3

Concealed Carry in the Office and Company Policy.

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry in the Office and Company Policy. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Why not go to management and try to change company policy? Explain in a calm, professional way the benefits of being able to carry concealed. ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array wilbmeister's Avatar
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    Why not go to management and try to change company policy? Explain in a calm, professional way the benefits of being able to carry concealed. Help them come up with criteria that would allow someone to carry... training certificate, CC permit, etc. If you can't carry now, you won't be any worse off for trying to get a change.


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbmeister View Post
    Why not go to management and try to change company policy? Explain in a calm, professional way the benefits of being able to carry concealed. Help them come up with criteria that would allow someone to carry... training certificate, CC permit, etc. If you can't carry now, you won't be any worse off for trying to get a change.
    Easy answer: if he approaches a strong anti-gun person he will be labeled as a nutcase who needs to be terminated, and soon he'll be shipped out the door. The reason will certainly be for attendance or poor performance or surfing the web while on the job or a sexual harassment claim... but he'll be out the door nonetheless.

    Maybe not, of course. But I listen to my spidey-senses...
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  3. #33
    New Member Array JayMax's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the good advice interesting to see all the different perspectives I'm still not 100% sure what I will do but for now I'm thinking no one will ever notice my Kel Tec P3AT in a wallet holster its a compromise in my mind because I will feel somewhat under armed.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    When you accept employment with a employer, the "bible" is the Employee Handbook. You do not have to be a lawyer to understand what the Handbook says. If it says "no weapons or you may be terminated" that's what it means.
    With a Handbook that says "... except for lawful uses," though, the exception may or may not have been intended to include the legal CHL carriers. Likely not, considering the volatile, fearful nature of such things at companies, generally. But, that's the part in question, IMO.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  5. #35
    Member Array lwdaniel's Avatar
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    Thanks to all that answered my question about Texas banks. I have read all over the criminal laws of Texas and didn't recall banks mentioned, I thought I missed something.
    I hope the original poster got a satisfactory answer. To me, If you ask and they say no, and you do it anyway and you are discovered, you are fired.
    If you don't ask and carry it at work, and you are discovered, you could be fired.
    Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, where the heck is the ceiling.

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    Man, thats a tough one. I would guess no.
    My suggestion? Open up a new email account with a bogus name. Email your HR director and CEO, or whever would be in charge of such things, and tell them that you are interested in applying for a job there, but don't want to bother if you can't carry and ask about the policy. Get your answer, delete the email address, problem solved.

    Another note I like to include in these kinds of posts....
    If they want to terminate you, they will. Whether they have some kind of policy against weapons or not.
    If they see you have a gun and decide they don't like it, they will fire you. Company policy just makes it so that you don't even have a chance to argue to anyone.
    But then again, anything can get you fired. They don't need an excuse really.
    When it comes down to it, if you are in such an area that you feel you NEED to carry at work, then carry and carry deep. If it is worth the risk of getting fired vs getting killed then the answer is simple. It doesn't matter what they say.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
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  7. #37
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    unless otherwise expressly permitted by operative state or local law.
    op·er·a·tive (pr--tv, --rtv, pr-)
    adj.
    1. Being in effect; having force; operating: "Two major tendencies are operative in the American political system" (Heinz Eulau).

    Check chapter 31 of Az law
    Arizona Revised Statutes

    I don't know if this will help. The way I read the post and the way I saw Az include "authorized by law" grouped in with permit holders... it would indeed seem an Az CHL permit is authorizing you. I know for a fact it is not that way in Ohio.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    op·er·a·tive (pr--tv, --rtv, pr-)
    adj.
    1. Being in effect; having force; operating: "Two major tendencies are operative in the American political system" (Heinz Eulau).

    Check chapter 31 of Az law
    Arizona Revised Statutes

    I don't know if this will help. The way I read the post and the way I saw Az include "authorized by law" grouped in with permit holders... it would indeed seem an Az CHL permit is authorizing you......
    Not inside their building.

    As for the phrase including the word operative:

    "including property owned or leased by Acme, unless otherwise expressly permitted by operative state or local law."

    That would refer to the rest of property that Acme might occupy (parking lots, grass areas, etc.) In this case they're saying that if there is a standing AZ law that expressly allows a CHL owner to have a weapon locked in a vehicle, then Acme policy cannot override AZ law.

    However,

    "The possession or use of weapons, including but not limited to, knives and handguns, weather concealed or carried openly, is strictly prohibited on Acme Bank premises.."

    Unfortunately they used the word premises, which means land and buildings. Now they have a conflict, because their statement about "property owned and leased.." is vague.

    My interpretation is "we do not allow firearms inside our buildings, however, if AZ law says you're allowed to have them in your car in our parking lot, then there's nothing we can do about it."

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    I went through this a while ago at my work. Company policy was no weapons anywhere on company property or while conducting company business, but MN has a law that prohibits employers from restricting lawful carry in a personal vehicle in company parking lots.

    My question went all the way to the corporate legal counsel. The answer was that company policy yields to state law, so yes I could have my firearm in my personal vehicle in a company parking lot. They just picked WHICH lot it was, which happened to be the one farthest away with the least oversight to prevent it from being broken into.

    If I want it in my truck, I take the walk. I can't afford to lose the job, and they will IMMEDIATELY fire you without recourse if you are caught. In the wrong area, carrying would also be a Federal offense.

    You should consider that raising the issue labels you as a gun owner and potential workplace violence issue. If you don't believe that, ask the guy who was targeted for buying a few pistols with his severance package.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK87 View Post
    I went through this a while ago at my work. Company policy was no weapons anywhere on company property or while conducting company business, but MN has a law that prohibits employers from restricting lawful carry in a personal vehicle in company parking lots.

    My question went all the way to the corporate legal counsel. The answer was that company policy yields to state law, so yes I could have my firearm in my personal vehicle in a company parking lot. They just picked WHICH lot it was, which happened to be the one farthest away with the least oversight to prevent it from being broken into.

    If I want it in my truck, I take the walk. I can't afford to lose the job, and they will IMMEDIATELY fire you without recourse if you are caught. In the wrong area, carrying would also be a Federal offense.

    You should consider that raising the issue labels you as a gun owner and potential workplace violence issue. If you don't believe that, ask the guy who was targeted for buying a few pistols with his severance package.

    John is right. That's what the clarification at the end of the restriction was refering to. Since ACME is a large company that operates in many states, that provision was added to comply with the state laws prohibiting employers from restricting their employees from storing their guns in locked cars in the parking lot.

    Also, look at all of the federal and state laws and restrictions on carry. A "lawful purpose" does not include just having your permit. That is refering to LEO or security guards.
    Walk softly ...

  11. #41
    Member Array glock45's Avatar
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    Check what the other posters said about being able to carry there.

    If you are, and cannot be made, I have only one word for you:
    "Smartcarry"
    It's what I use everyday for my G30 or my SP101....

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    I know for a fact it is not that way in Ohio.
    Really...?

    Based on what? (Can you tell what state I work in?)

    "Unless Otherwise Authorized" was always my back-up argument for "just in case".

    Please respond or PM, I'd like to know more...

    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

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  13. #43
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangertech View Post
    I'm not sure about Arizona, but in TX, it is strictly forbidden to carry a firearm in a bank, whether licensed or not. Based on the way the policy reads to me, it is against company policy. Maybe talking to a supervisor would help as well.
    This is absolutely NOT correct! Banks are not "prohibited premises" in Texas, and can only become de-facto prohibited premises by posting a sign in compliance with Texas Penal Code Section 30.06 at every public entrance. (I didn't take time to read all the posts, so if someone already caught this, I apologize for the repetition.)

    Don't know about AZ law, but as I read the touchy-feely-written-by-employment-lawyers-who-don't-get-it company policy posted by the OP, I would say that possession of a valid CHL would be sufficient to comply and allow carry. Private companies don't make law, but they can fire you, and for me, that would be the only concern.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLeVick View Post
    Don't know about AZ law, but as I read the touchy-feely-written-by-employment-lawyers-who-don't-get-it company policy posted by the OP, I would say that possession of a valid CHL would be sufficient to comply and allow carry. Private companies don't make law, but they can fire you, and for me, that would be the only concern.
    I was wondering if I and retsupt99 were the only people who read the policy as an out TO carry. That is, if you don't have a permit, you can't carry. I'm failing to understand why this is hard to comprehend...

    As a reminder to the policy as quoted by the OP:

    Quote Originally Posted by JayMax
    This part is not 100% clear to me:
    “The possession or use of weapons, including but not limited to, knives and handguns, weather concealed or carried openly, is strictly prohibited on Acme Bank premises, including property owned or leased by Acme, unless otherwise expressly permitted by operative state or local law. (emphasis mine)
    So---if the state of AZ is silent on carry in a bank (i.e. not listed as a prohibited place in state law, banks ARE NOT federal property), and the OP has a permit to carry from the state--he satisfies the requirement of "expressly permitted by operative state...law"
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  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilMonk View Post
    Really...?

    Based on what? (Can you tell what state I work in?)

    "Unless Otherwise Authorized" was always my back-up argument for "just in case".

    Please respond or PM, I'd like to know more...


    Ohio revised code 2923.126 Duties of a licensed individual

    Section C paragraph 1

    "Nothing in this section shall negate or restrict a rule, policy, or practice of a private employer that is not a private college, university, or other institution of higher education concerning or prohibiting the presence of firearms on the private employer’s premises or property, including motor vehicles owned by the private employer. Nothing in this section shall require a private employer of that nature to adopt a rule, policy, or practice concerning or prohibiting the presence of firearms on the private employer’s premises or property, including motor vehicles owned by the private employer."

    If you are employed by a person prohibiting guns Ohio is on their side not yours.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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