Concealed Carry in the Office and Company Policy. - Page 4

Concealed Carry in the Office and Company Policy.

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry in the Office and Company Policy. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIGguy229 I was wondering if I and retsupt99 were the only people who read the policy as an out TO carry. That ...

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Thread: Concealed Carry in the Office and Company Policy.

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I was wondering if I and retsupt99 were the only people who read the policy as an out TO carry. That is, if you don't have a permit, you can't carry. I'm failing to understand why this is hard to comprehend...
    Because you're reading it wrong.

    I will admit, it's poorly worded. There are related clauses only separated by commas, that's where the confusion starts.

    Let's break it into separate sentences:

    “The possession or use of weapons, including but not limited to, knives and handguns, weather concealed or carried openly, is strictly prohibited on Acme Bank premises"

    Pretty clear, right? Except for the word premises, which is defined as building and land together. But let's just assume for the moment that they're referring to the building, and this is because of the second part:

    "including property owned or leased by Acme, unless otherwise expressly permitted by operative state or local law."

    Since they went to great lengths to separate "premises" from "property owned or leased" I'm assuming that they're now referring to everything surrounding the building, which could be grass, parking lots, access paths, etc.

    In this case they're referring to recent laws in other states that allow an employee to keep a weapon locked in their vehicle. IF there is an operative AZ state law that allows an employee to keep said weapon in their vehicle, then company policy has to allow that.

    As I said, it's poorly worded and confusing, hence all the interpretations.

    And if you don't believe my interpretation, then ask your favorite lawyer for his/her take.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage View Post
    Because you're reading it wrong.

    I will admit, it's poorly worded. There are related clauses only separated by commas, that's where the confusion starts.

    Let's break it into separate sentences:

    “The possession or use of weapons, including but not limited to, knives and handguns, weather concealed or carried openly, is strictly prohibited on Acme Bank premises"

    Pretty clear, right? Except for the word premises, which is defined as building and land together. But let's just assume for the moment that they're referring to the building, and this is because of the second part:

    "including property owned or leased by Acme, unless otherwise expressly permitted by operative state or local law."

    Since they went to great lengths to separate "premises" from "property owned or leased" I'm assuming that they're now referring to everything surrounding the building, which could be grass, parking lots, access paths, etc.

    In this case they're referring to recent laws in other states that allow an employee to keep a weapon locked in their vehicle. IF there is an operative AZ state law that allows an employee to keep said weapon in their vehicle, then company policy has to allow that.

    As I said, it's poorly worded and confusing, hence all the interpretations.

    And if you don't believe my interpretation, then ask your favorite lawyer for his/her take.
    The way I read that was:
    1-They don't want guns on any/all property that is leased/owned, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    2-UNLESS...they had a permit from the state that allows one to carry...Carry laws do not specify where one can carry, only where one CAN NOT carry...so in your reading of the part about "expressly permitted by state law" is specious at best. One SHOULD NOT need a lawyer to read a stinkin' public sign...

    3-If you know something I don't know about the policy, I don't see a reference to anything about other state's laws...I'm taking the policy as it is (poorly) written...at face value, thus, that is why I'm still on the side he can carry. I do not see where any other AZ law or other laws are referenced or inferred.
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  3. #48
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    They don't want guns on their property, unless state law says they can't forbid it. Pretty simple.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    The way I read that was:
    1-They don't want guns on any/all property that is leased/owned, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    2-UNLESS...they had a permit from the state that allows one to carry...Carry laws do not specify where one can carry, only where one CAN NOT carry...so in your reading of the part about "expressly permitted by state law" is specious at best. One SHOULD NOT need a lawyer to read a stinkin' public sign...

    3-If you know something I don't know about the policy, I don't see a reference to anything about other state's laws...I'm taking the policy as it is (poorly) written...at face value, thus, that is why I'm still on the side he can carry. I do not see where any other AZ law or other laws are referenced or inferred.
    I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.

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    My gratitude, Razor...
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  6. #51
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    [QUOTE=JayMax;1600735]

    The possession or use of weapons, including but not limited to, knives and handguns, weather concealed or carried openly, is strictly prohibited on Acme Bank premises, including property owned or leased by Acme, unless otherwise expressly permitted by operative state or local law.

    I know that a lot people don't want to hear about our Governor; Jan Brewer, here it goes anyway.

    Jan Brewer recently signed a bill that basically said an employer cannot forbid an employee from having a weapon in a locked vehicle parked in a company parking lot.
    I know the parking lot is not the work place and I am not a lawyer, I am just trying to shed a little light on the subject.
    Don't tread on me or mine.
    I am comfortable laying on a rock in the sun; bothering no one. If you choose to ignore the above statement, you will wish all you had to do, is deal with a snake.

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