Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

This is a discussion on Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tommy3rd i wouldn't mind if bars restaurants banned firearms, as long as they strictly enforce it complete with security and metal detectors. ...

View Poll Results: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

Voters
396. You may not vote on this poll
  • No carry at all

    6 1.52%
  • You can carry, just no drinking.

    225 56.82%
  • You can carry, and a drink or two is ok.

    94 23.74%
  • You can carry and drink up to the legal limit of .08 BAC

    48 12.12%
  • Drink as much as you want, it's your choice.

    20 5.05%
  • Don't care / No opinion

    3 0.76%
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Thread: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

  1. #151
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy3rd View Post
    i wouldn't mind if bars restaurants banned firearms, as long as they strictly enforce it complete with security and metal detectors. I want an even playing field against the BG, because they don't play by the rules.

    At the same time, some drunk bast**d can drink all he wants even if he's armed, but once he starts acting stupid and pulls out his weapon he's going down...
    I LOL'ed at your comment, then LOL'ed again because you're from new jersey. If you think metal detectors and security are going to stop an armed criminal you really have been living in The Peoples Republik Of New Jersey for too long.

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  3. #152
    Member Array funwitHK's Avatar
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    IMHO- If you have a permit, you should be able to carry anywhere! thus the reason for legally obtaining a permit....seems obvious to me but certain sheeple don't see it that way.
    funwitHK
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  4. #153
    Member Array tommy3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    I LOL'ed at your comment, then LOL'ed again because you're from new jersey. If you think metal detectors and security are going to stop an armed criminal you really have been living in The Peoples Republik Of New Jersey for too long.
    Yes, I've been entertaining the idea of moving just past the NJ border to the land of the free, it's just going to be a horrible 1 1/2hr commute to my job if I do. And no, I know security can't stop the criminals, but being an unarmed NJ citizen, i won't be able to either. I don't even have the option.
    It's so bad here, I know people who get non-resident permits from UT and FL just so they can drive to PA and carry!

  5. #154
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Shall not be infringed.....
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  6. #155
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    Well guys once again not saying infringe on anyones god given right to carry or drink, or carry and drink or whatever. Jcabin all I can say is you have things to learn about in life.
    On one hand you say the if the bar bans guns post guards and metal detectors then on the next post you say if you think guards and metal detectors will stop criminals you are wrong. So nice to see that you preach about your rights while basically saying screw you to the other guys rights he should have known better. But that is your right.
    You had a streak going of not using anti gun in a post but you lost that one. Just because someone disagrees with you they are not anti gun but no one will change your mind and that is your right. You stated you will not worry about the after effects thats great no need to worry they will do it for you.
    You are putting to much merit in a good shoot, is a good shoot scenario but again you have a lot to learn about life, the law, courts and juries I just hope you do not have to learn the hard way. You are putting blind faith to protect you in the same legal system and government that you say is attempting to take your guns but go ahead it is your right. Dont know that an intoxicated CCW person has ever shot anyone and I pray it never happens, I would not want to be the test case.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #156
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmodel65 View Post
    Shall not be infringed.....
    Yea, this is the part that I keep coming back too. Stop telling me where I can and cannot carry and stop telling me how.

    You got guys in here saying ban at bars because nobody gets shot going to their cars. You got guys saying you can carry but only with a permit.

    We are making inroads into the country conscience and things are going better than we ever have but until everyone realizes that there should not be any infringement.....
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  8. #157
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    exactly...except for a courthouse/jail nowhere should be off limits

    i like these quotes

    Gun control means being able to hit your target. If I have a 'hot button' issue, this is definitely it. Don't even think about taking my guns. My rights are not negotiable, and I am totally unwilling to compromise when it comes to the Second Amendment.


    Michael Badnarik

    I just want everyone to know that 20,000 gun laws in the United States are unconstitutional. They infringe on your right to protect your life, the lives of your loved ones, and your property.


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  9. #158
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    IMO...there are way too many tough guys/wannabe gangbangers in my local bars already. If it were made legal to carry in bars, I'd probably stop going to bars completely. I've only been legally able to drink in bars for 4 years, and I don't go out that often as it is (maybe 1x a month)...and I've already seen alot of fights over really dumb stuff. To me, introducing weapons into this environment is a poor idea.

    I do carry at restaurants that serve liquor (legal in SD*) when I go out to eat.


    *The permit is valid throughout South Dakota except in any licensed on-sale malt beverage or alcoholic beverage establishment that derives over one-half of its total income from the sale of malt or alcoholic beverages (SDCL 23-7-8.1); any county courthouse as defined in SDCL 22-14-22; or any elementary or secondary schools (SDCL 13-32-7).

  10. #159
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    rmodel65 I do not know you so I am asking this question as if you have no knowledge or training. If you do I apologize in advance and you can explain further.
    What and why on earth thinks you should be able to carry a firearm into a courtroom or jail? Please do not say because I can. Actual trained correctional officers and cops do not carry in jails and courtrooms because there are real bad guys there that will take your gun away and make you eat it.
    A courtroom in some cases depending on the judge is off limits for even officers to carry Federal court especially they carry less than lethal options or the court ballif is armed.
    So you are basically saying because you have a permit and the constitution says you have the right to keep and bear arms you should be able to enter a State Maximum Security Prison with a firearm to protect yourself not to mention maintain control of it 3 seconds after a convict sees it?
    Please explain how this is rational. You have people on here who by their own addmission are so afraid of a ND that they will not even carry a round in the chamber of a DAO pistol, who again by there own addmission have little if any training with a firearm past the CCW course they took and because it is legal in their state advocate drinking while carrying a firearm but as stated on here that is their right and if they hurt somone or something happens its on them, so now because it is their right you want to allow these same people who have little or no training, mindset or tactic to introduce a firearm into a jail or courtroom where there are actual criminals who have raped, murdered, robbed and sodomized their victims because you feel it is your right?
    Please explain how this comes close to making sense.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #160
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Does your life become any less valuable, to the point where you should not be allowed to carry a firearm for self defense, simply because you have been consuming alcohol?
    That is a loaded question if I ever saw one. No your life doesn't become less valuable if you consume alcohol.

    Does the life of everyone around your intended target become less valuable when you consume alcohol? As others have said alcohol will numb the mind and dull the senses. Who says you are still the elite marksman when you have had a few?

    Again I say... we aren't writing federal law here. These are opinions. For the most part it is still the state that tells you what you can or can't do even now... It all comes down to being responsible... What is being responsible? I guess that is a whole new topic because you will be getting many many opinions.

    Speaking of responsibility....
    If the local gun range doesn't have signs everywhere prohibiting alcohol is it OK to crack open a cold brew right there in the stall? If we had a constitutional right to drink alcohol shouldn't it be OK while at work or sitting in class (college) to have a glass of wine or bottle of beer? It's just a few drinks... I'm still completely fine to file paperwork, take notes, go to meetings, etc. etc..... right???

    We responsible gun owners are the reason so many people look at guns as tools and don't fault them when criminals use them to kill people and rob banks. We responsible gun owners are the reason enough politicians where in favor of enacting CHL programs. We petition, protest and advocate our rights. Needless to say it only takes one to negate all that work. One person to use deadly force when it was not warranted.

    Thinking that a prosecutor will not use your BAC as a factor in a self defense case is ignorant. The prosecutor's job is to convict you of a crime. That is what he/she is paid to do. If they can't get you with murder then they will try to get you with negligence or manslaughter. Anything to get a conviction. You may think it is a completely justified self defense shoot and you tell the responding officer all about it... oops...

    My point is I fail to see how the desire to consume alcohol trumps the responsibility of carrying.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  12. #161
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    That is a loaded question if I ever saw one. No your life doesn't become less valuable if you consume alcohol.
    It's a loaded question for people who don't understand rights, liberty, and justice. It should be common sense for any American.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Does the life of everyone around your intended target become less valuable when you consume alcohol? As others have said alcohol will numb the mind and dull the senses. Who says you are still the elite marksman when you have had a few?
    You're all so sure that someone consuming alcohol can't shoot another person standing 5 yards away or less.. We're not talking about shooting the wings off a fly at 50 yards, we're talking self-defense distances.

    You're placing blame on the victim, when the blame should be placed on the criminal. Yeah, the person shooting might screw up, but if he kills one bystander person in the process, he might have stopped 10 others from dying at the hands of the criminal. (this situation is applicable to any situation where a criminal is just going around taking people out). I hope the person who is attempting to defend against an active shooter is capable of hitting his mark, and I trust that they will. You have little faith..


    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Again I say... we aren't writing federal law here. These are opinions. For the most part it is still the state that tells you what you can or can't do even now... It all comes down to being responsible... What is being responsible? I guess that is a whole new topic because you will be getting many many opinions.
    Responsible is knowing your limits and making certain to remain within them. When you talk about responsibility in the context of consuming alcohol, then there is no set standard. Some people honestly think that having 2 beers will degrade someones motor skills to the point where they can't possibly shoot in defense. Others know that is untrue, and feel the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Speaking of responsibility....
    If the local gun range doesn't have signs everywhere prohibiting alcohol is it OK to crack open a cold brew right there in the stall? If we had a constitutional right to drink alcohol shouldn't it be OK while at work or sitting in class (college) to have a glass of wine or bottle of beer? It's just a few drinks... I'm still completely fine to file paperwork, take notes, go to meetings, etc. etc..... right???
    There is no correlation. We're talking about handling your gun ONLY under the most extreme of circumstances, where you have to use it for self-defense purposes. Not drinking for fun and going to shoot off 500 rounds. If that's what you want to do, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I won't stop you. However, that has nothing to do with self-defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    We responsible gun owners are the reason so many people look at guns as tools and don't fault them when criminals use them to kill people and rob banks. We responsible gun owners are the reason enough politicians where in favor of enacting CHL programs. We petition, protest and advocate our rights. Needless to say it only takes one to negate all that work. One person to use deadly force when it was not warranted.
    That's right, and we need to continue to set an example. If consumption and carry is prohibited in your state, follow your laws. In a state with more freedoms and less rights restriction, I will follow my laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Thinking that a prosecutor will not use your BAC as a factor in a self defense case is ignorant. The prosecutor's job is to convict you of a crime. That is what he/she is paid to do. If they can't get you with murder then they will try to get you with negligence or manslaughter. Anything to get a conviction. You may think it is a completely justified self defense shoot and you tell the responding officer all about it... oops...
    Not all DA's are scum. Not all DA's are liberal anti-gun zealots. This is all dependent upon where you live, and the people in your local government. As I said, if the shoot is good, the shoot is good. This is determined relatively quick by the DA. Everything will be fine. Though I'm operating on the assumption that people don't lose the ability to determine when it is and isn't justifiable to use lethal force. If someone screws up, then they are held accountable, and face the justice system. Such is life. This happens almost never, so I'm not really concerned about it. People carry and drink all over the country, but you don't hear about unjustified drunken shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    My point is I fail to see how the desire to consume alcohol trumps the responsibility of carrying.
    It's called freedom. The last thing I'm going to be worried about in a self-defense situation is if the DA is going to charge me. Why? Because if I sit there and take a few minutes out to consider whether I should use lethal force or not, the situation probably wasn't dangerous enough for me to use it, or the person trying to harm me will probably have killed me by then.

    It's a simple shoot/no shoot issue. Once you know the laws in regards to self-defense, in your state, it becomes pretty clear when it is and isn't ok to use lethal force. Generally, you must be in fear for your life.

    If you don't trust yourself to be able to have more than 1 beer, and carry a gun, then fine. I respect that. If you don't trust other people, fine. If you think even if it was a good shoot, the DA will charge you anyway, so you don't drink, that's a little preposterous as I've never heard of it happening, but fine, I respect that. I trust myself, and won't be disarmed out of the unfounded fears other people have.

  13. #162
    Member Array mamakennedy's Avatar
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    So many people drive them selves to bars and such and they drive themselves home legally. Cars kill more people each year than firearms (non military use of course), so whats the big deal.
    If you are stupid enough to get drunk and then drive I think you should have your DL yanked, same with CC permit. You get caught drunk with your side arm on you then yank the CC permit.
    If the person can show, after a reasonable time, that they can be responsible them let them reapply so they can drive and carry again.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

  14. #163
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    Mamakennedy this has been an ongoing thing with this guy. He feels because Pennsylvania state law says he can carry in a bar he, again because of state law and the second amendment, can drink as much as he wants because the law does not say otherwise. Common sense, safety, and the other guys rights be damned as long as he has his rights.
    As you can see from his comment "but if he kills one bystander person in the process," it is ok if one person dies because the intoxicated shooter missed if it saves others lives. I dont know if he could hit someone sober at five yards but he feels he can do it after drinking as much as he wants because he knows his limitations.
    This is not about having a beer with dinner, quit backing down, this is about making the statement that you can drink as much as you want, carry a gun, get in a lethal force encounter, kill an innocent person, they were gonna die anyway so it is an acceptable loss, and say that you are still a responsible gun owner.
    I dont know how he would choose the lamb to the slaughter or if he would ask for volunteers but as long as his rights are protected I guess its ok.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #164
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    It's a loaded question for people who don't understand rights, liberty, and justice. It should be common sense for any American.
    That is not a valid response. It does not even make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    You're all so sure that someone consuming alcohol can't shoot another person standing 5 yards away or less.. We're not talking about shooting the wings off a fly at 50 yards, we're talking self-defense distances.
    yes we are and I didn't say an intoxicated person can't shoot a person 5 yards away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    You're placing blame on the victim, when the blame should be placed on the criminal. Yeah, the person shooting might screw up, but if he kills one bystander person in the process, he might have stopped 10 others from dying at the hands of the criminal. (this situation is applicable to any situation where a criminal is just going around taking people out). I hope the person who is attempting to defend against an active shooter is capable of hitting his mark, and I trust that they will. You have little faith..
    You can not be serious.... I can't believe you said that. I don't care if you have 3 books worth of disclaimers that statement can't be twisted into a good thing. Sort of answers my question about if people's lives around you are any less valuable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Responsible is knowing your limits and making certain to remain within them. When you talk about responsibility in the context of consuming alcohol, then there is no set standard. Some people honestly think that having 2 beers will degrade someones motor skills to the point where they can't possibly shoot in defense. Others know that is untrue, and feel the opposite.
    You can not defy science. Even 1 beer will impair you in some way. ON AVERAGE even someone that is tolerant to alcohol still metabolizes 1 drink in 1 hour. Drinking responsible isn't drinking to your limit. It is drinking to enjoy the meal, time out, taste of the drink... not woof down 2 or 3 beers to get a buzz going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    There is no correlation. We're talking about handling your gun ONLY under the most extreme of circumstances, where you have to use it for self-defense purposes. Not drinking for fun and going to shoot off 500 rounds. If that's what you want to do, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I won't stop you. However, that has nothing to do with self-defense.
    My question was about if it is your right to consume alcohol then why is it that we can't drink at work? At the range? In class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    That's right, and we need to continue to set an example. If consumption and carry is prohibited in your state, follow your laws. In a state with more freedoms and less rights restriction, I will follow my laws.
    This is the most intelligent thing you have said so far...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Not all DA's are scum. Not all DA's are liberal anti-gun zealots. This is all dependent upon where you live, and the people in your local government. As I said, if the shoot is good, the shoot is good. This is determined relatively quick by the DA. Everything will be fine. Though I'm operating on the assumption that people don't lose the ability to determine when it is and isn't justifiable to use lethal force. If someone screws up, then they are held accountable, and face the justice system. Such is life. This happens almost never, so I'm not really concerned about it. People carry and drink all over the country, but you don't hear about unjustified drunken shootings.
    It doesn't matter what the DA is or isn't. Bottom line is it is their job to convict you of a crime. You have to outmatch them in the court room. If you don't then your butt is in jail... even if you are the "victim"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    It's called freedom. The last thing I'm going to be worried about in a self-defense situation is if the DA is going to charge me. Why? Because if I sit there and take a few minutes out to consider whether I should use lethal force or not, the situation probably wasn't dangerous enough for me to use it, or the person trying to harm me will probably have killed me by then.
    Do you always sit there and think about it when someone threatens you? The above quote does not hold water. I was talking about if you where drinking and where involved in a SD shooting wouldn't you think the DA would bring that fact up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    It's a simple shoot/no shoot issue. Once you know the laws in regards to self-defense, in your state, it becomes pretty clear when it is and isn't ok to use lethal force. Generally, you must be in fear for your life.
    It is not always so simple. Knowing the laws and being able to apply them in scenarios is 2 different things. Being able to understand the laws is very important. You can't always group a bunch of factors into a justified shoot or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    If you don't trust yourself to be able to have more than 1 beer, and carry a gun, then fine. I respect that. If you don't trust other people, fine. If you think even if it was a good shoot, the DA will charge you anyway, so you don't drink, that's a little preposterous as I've never heard of it happening, but fine, I respect that. I trust myself, and won't be disarmed out of the unfounded fears other people have.
    Let me say this.

    Digesting your whole post I came up with this. I hope I never have to be in the same bar as you if something happens. You believe consuming alcohol while carrying doesn't make you irresponsible. You also believe that shooting an innocent person while trying to play drunken hero is OK. You think your right is infringed if I say it is irresponsible to drink and carry... I have news for you. It isn't infringing anybody's right. I have my beliefs and you have yours.

    I just hope that you can realize that I am not trying to disarm anyone. I am trying to say that it is not a responsible thing to do if someone is drinking and carrying. If you can't understand that then please re read this post.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  16. #165
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    Wait razor listen for it. He will say it we have disagreed with him. You know it is coming..........ANTI GUN, ANTI GUN, YOU WANT THEM BANNED, YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS, ANTI GUN, ANTI GUN, THAT IS WHAT THEY SAY......Sorry just preparing you for it did not want you to be surprised.
    Jcabin you asked the question Is your life less valuable because you carry a firearm and drink? Who in the hell are you to say it is ok that an innocent person dies at your hand because you have the right to get smashed, bashed, sloshed or drink as much as you want? Oh wait they were gonna die anyway at the hands of the bad guy. Got it.
    Gee I hope no one else in the bar has the same attitude you do because you might just be the one chosen to be the sacrifice...but you were gonna die anyways.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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