Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

This is a discussion on Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tacman605 Wait razor listen for it. He will say it we have disagreed with him. You know it is coming..........ANTI GUN, ANTI ...

View Poll Results: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

Voters
396. You may not vote on this poll
  • No carry at all

    6 1.52%
  • You can carry, just no drinking.

    225 56.82%
  • You can carry, and a drink or two is ok.

    94 23.74%
  • You can carry and drink up to the legal limit of .08 BAC

    48 12.12%
  • Drink as much as you want, it's your choice.

    20 5.05%
  • Don't care / No opinion

    3 0.76%
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Thread: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

  1. #166
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Wait razor listen for it. He will say it we have disagreed with him. You know it is coming..........ANTI GUN, ANTI GUN, YOU WANT THEM BANNED, YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS, ANTI GUN, ANTI GUN, THAT IS WHAT THEY SAY......Sorry just preparing you for it did not want you to be surprised.
    Jcabin you asked the question Is your life less valuable because you carry a firearm and drink? Who in the hell are you to say it is ok that an innocent person dies at your hand because you have the right to get smashed, bashed, sloshed or drink as much as you want? Oh wait they were gonna die anyway at the hands of the bad guy. Got it.
    Gee I hope no one else in the bar has the same attitude you do because you might just be the one chosen to be the sacrifice...but you were gonna die anyways.
    Anti-gun arguements. You believe that consuming alcohol while carrying a gun means certain death to anyone in the area. Anti-guns believe carrying a gun, PERIOD, means certain death to anyone in the area. You don't see the connection of sentiments?

    I never said innocent people should die? Could any of you stop convoluting my statements and actually respond with an original thought?

    If you know you can't handle 1 beer and carry, don't drink. It's called freedom. Again, stop putting words in my mouth, I never said someone should drink till they black out while carrying, just because they can. I said nobody loses the right to self defense simply because they've consumed alcohol. I don't know what kind of events you guys are envisioning, but they sound very similar to the same scenes an anti-gun would portray. Blood in the streets, arguements over parking spaces, people aren't trained adequatly to handle firearms, etc.

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  3. #167
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Who in the hell are you to say it is ok that an innocent person dies at your hand because you have the right to get smashed, bashed, sloshed or drink as much as you want?
    jcabin didn't say that. Just as rmodel65 did not say that he thinks he should be able to carry in courtrooms, or correctional facilities.

  4. #168
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Mamakennedy this has been an ongoing thing with this guy. He feels because Pennsylvania state law says he can carry in a bar he, again because of state law and the second amendment, can drink as much as he wants because the law does not say otherwise. Common sense, safety, and the other guys rights be damned as long as he has his rights.
    As you can see from his comment "but if he kills one bystander person in the process," it is ok if one person dies because the intoxicated shooter missed if it saves others lives. I dont know if he could hit someone sober at five yards but he feels he can do it after drinking as much as he wants because he knows his limitations.
    This is not about having a beer with dinner, quit backing down, this is about making the statement that you can drink as much as you want, carry a gun, get in a lethal force encounter, kill an innocent person, they were gonna die anyway so it is an acceptable loss, and say that you are still a responsible gun owner.
    I dont know how he would choose the lamb to the slaughter or if he would ask for volunteers but as long as his rights are protected I guess its ok.
    I'm saying it probably wouldn't happen. It's not about making a statement. I'm concealed, so who knows I'm carrying? Who am I making a statement to? Nobody will know I'm CC, and I won't tell anyone I'm CC.

    You're using the same arguement anti's use about students CC'ing on campus. Saying they aren't trained enough, if there is an active shooter, the students will end up killing innocent people, it will lead to more violence and bloodshed, etc.

  5. #169
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post
    jcabin didn't say that. Just as rmodel65 did not say that he thinks he should be able to carry in courtrooms, or correctional facilities.
    Thanks unloved. What can we expect though. Tacman is/was a LEO. He was trained to convolute peoples words to his own advantage so he can make an arrest/assist the DA in getting a conviction. He refuses to debate without twisting words in every response he's given so far.

    To top it off, he has a typical LEO attitude about civilians carrying guns. He says I'm a "mall ninja with extreme prowess" simply because I believe in the tenets of liberty.

  6. #170
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    WOW! This thread has gone down hill.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #171
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Anti-gun arguements. You believe that consuming alcohol while carrying a gun means certain death to anyone in the area. Anti-guns believe carrying a gun, PERIOD, means certain death to anyone in the area. You don't see the connection of sentiments?

    I never said innocent people should die? Could any of you stop convoluting my statements and actually respond with an original thought?

    If you know you can't handle 1 beer and carry, don't drink. It's called freedom. Again, stop putting words in my mouth, I never said someone should drink till they black out while carrying, just because they can. I said nobody loses the right to self defense simply because they've consumed alcohol. I don't know what kind of events you guys are envisioning, but they sound very similar to the same scenes an anti-gun would portray. Blood in the streets, arguements over parking spaces, people aren't trained adequatly to handle firearms, etc.
    This is getting old. Nobody advocated about arguments over parking spaces or lack of training leads to blood in the streets.

    Nor did anyone accuse you of saying "someone should drink till they black out while carrying"
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #172
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    I'm saying it probably wouldn't happen. It's not about making a statement. I'm concealed, so who knows I'm carrying? Who am I making a statement to? Nobody will know I'm CC, and I won't tell anyone I'm CC.

    You're using the same arguement anti's use about students CC'ing on campus. Saying they aren't trained enough, if there is an active shooter, the students will end up killing innocent people, it will lead to more violence and bloodshed, etc.
    I think you hit the wrong quote button... I don't see anywhere in the quoted tacman605 post where he mentioned anything about colleges or conceal carrying...

    One thing about your statement about an active shooter taking out person after person and you killed an innocent person while trying to stop that threat... I am not aware of ANY place in the United States where you would be found not guilty of murder. You shot at the bad guy to stop him but you killed an innocent person. Unless you have a damn good lawyer I think your butt is grass and the DA is a lawnmower... If you don't have a law enforcement union or any good representation other then a cookie cutter lawyer... you would be screwed.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  9. #173
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Thanks unloved. What can we expect though. Tacman is/was a LEO. He was trained to convolute peoples words to his own advantage so he can make an arrest/assist the DA in getting a conviction. He refuses to debate without twisting words in every response he's given so far.

    To top it off, he has a typical LEO attitude about civilians carrying guns. He says I'm a "mall ninja with extreme prowess" simply because I believe in the tenets of liberty.
    This quoted post is completely unnecessary.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  10. #174
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    Well glad you did not disappoint with the anti gun statements. As I said this is not about a beer with dinner it is your comments throughout these posts that you should/could/would drink as much as you want and carry a gun because that is your right given to you by the constitution and Penn state law.

    I never said innocent people should die?
    "Yeah, the person shooting might screw up, but if he kills one bystander person in the process, he might have stopped 10 others from dying at the hands of the criminal."

    If that statement does not mean that an innocent person may die at your hand but is an acceptable loss because they were gonna die anyway, please tell me the point you are trying to make.

    As your posts have gone on you have continued to downplay the drinking angle. The first ones you stated and greatly defended, I can drink as much as I want, doesnt affect me, I know my limitations and so on.

    When someone else mentioned common sense and responsibility you downplayed it as not relevant. It was your right to drink as much as you want in a bar because everyone else does and everyone carries a gun!
    Now you are making statements that if you cannot handle a couple of beers or It should be common sense for any American.
    Well no ****, it should also be common sense not to drink and carry a firearm but I guess you can pick and choose the time, place and level of common sense you employ because you know you limitations.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #175
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    That is not a valid response. It does not even make sense.
    It's really easy, and if you can't understand it that is your problem.
    The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Does a person lose the right to self defense after consuming alcohol?

    Care to explain how that is a loaded question? Your answer is either YES or NO. It's pretty simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    You can not defy science. Even 1 beer will impair you in some way. ON AVERAGE even someone that is tolerant to alcohol still metabolizes 1 drink in 1 hour. Drinking responsible isn't drinking to your limit. It is drinking to enjoy the meal, time out, taste of the drink... not woof down 2 or 3 beers to get a buzz going.
    Did I say I was defying science? I stated multiple times now that consuming alcohol does affect motor skills. You need to stop choosing to ignore what you don't want to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    My question was about if it is your right to consume alcohol then why is it that we can't drink at work? At the range? In class?
    Hmm, there is no correlation here.. You can't drink at work if your boss says so. It's his business and he determines what you can and cannot do. If your boss says you can drink, then you can.

    You can drink at the range, that is up to whoever owns the range.

    If you can't drink in class, that is up to the school and it's policies.

    What does this have to do with self defense?


    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    This is the most intelligent thing you have said so far...
    Good, now it's your turn, I'm still waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    It doesn't matter what the DA is or isn't. Bottom line is it is their job to convict you of a crime. You have to outmatch them in the court room. If you don't then your butt is in jail... even if you are the "victim"
    Wrong, their job is to ensure that justice is dealt. Their job is to determine if someone used lethal force justifiably. Not to incarcerate every single warrant that lands on their desk.


    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Do you always sit there and think about it when someone threatens you? The above quote does not hold water. I was talking about if you where drinking and where involved in a SD shooting wouldn't you think the DA would bring that fact up?
    Not if it was a good shoot.


    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    It is not always so simple. Knowing the laws and being able to apply them in scenarios is 2 different things. Being able to understand the laws is very important. You can't always group a bunch of factors into a justified shoot or not.
    What? I think that self-defense is pretty simple. If someone threatens your life, and you are in fear for your life, you may use lethal force. If they piss you off, you can't. Pretty simple.


    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Let me say this.

    Digesting your whole post I came up with this. I hope I never have to be in the same bar as you if something happens. You believe consuming alcohol while carrying doesn't make you irresponsible.
    Good, you should move to new york where everyone feels the same as you.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    You also believe that shooting an innocent person while trying to play drunken hero is OK.
    I never said that. Again, anti-gun rhetoric. You assume that someone who is drinking and carrying will attempt to display some level of bravado far beyond their limits/skills and try and play there hero, in the process, killing innocent people. That is the same thing the anti-gun crowd thinks about people carrying guns in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    You think your right is infringed if I say it is irresponsible to drink and carry... I have news for you. It isn't infringing anybody's right. I have my beliefs and you have yours.
    So limiting the places and activities, where I can and cannot carry isn't infringing on my rights? "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" The more you question that, the more you feed into the anti-gun agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    I just hope that you can realize that I am not trying to disarm anyone. I am trying to say that it is not a responsible thing to do if someone is drinking and carrying. If you can't understand that then please re read this post.
    You've stated your opinion again and again, and said that you think that the question of, "if a person has consumed alcohol, do they lose the right to self defense" is a loaded question. You need to look to the constitution to guide you, and you need to think what our founding fathers wanted. Then again, you aren't on the supreme court, so I count my blessings. Just another person who only supports the constitution when it benefits themselves.

  12. #176
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    Unloved are we not reading the same thing.

    exactly...except for a courthouse/jail nowhere should be off limits

    That is from Rmodel65 comment on page 8.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #177
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    This quoted post is completely unnecessary.
    As unecessary as asking why people are prohibited from drinking while at work and at school? Come on, when are you going to grow up?

  14. #178
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    Jcabin a debate takes two people with the same basic level of education and experience on opposite sides of an issue presenting facts relavent to their side of the debate. You dont have that. But dont feel bad I dont debate with my 4 year old either. I tell what is right or wrong until she is old enough to know the difference.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #179
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Unloved are we not reading the same thing.

    exactly...except for a courthouse/jail nowhere should be off limits

    That is from Rmodel65 comment on page 8.
    Yeah, we're reading the same thing.

    except for a courthouse/jail nowhere should be off limits
    rmodel65 is saying that he thinks courthouses, and jails should be off limits, but nowhere else.

    You've made reply after reply jumping down people's throats for things that they have not said.

  16. #180
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well glad you did not disappoint with the anti gun statements. As I said this is not about a beer with dinner it is your comments throughout these posts that you should/could/would drink as much as you want and carry a gun because that is your right given to you by the constitution and Penn state law.

    I never said innocent people should die?
    "Yeah, the person shooting might screw up, but if he kills one bystander person in the process, he might have stopped 10 others from dying at the hands of the criminal."

    If that statement does not mean that an innocent person may die at your hand but is an acceptable loss because they were gonna die anyway, please tell me the point you are trying to make..
    I'm saying it might happen, and it would suck. Would you rather stand there and die, or make the best attempt you could at stopping an active shooter? Clearly, one would do what they could, they would wait until there are no bystanders in the line of fire. They would try and get an angle so there would be no person behind the target that the bullet might hit, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    When someone else mentioned common sense and responsibility you downplayed it as not relevant. It was your right to drink as much as you want in a bar because everyone else does and everyone carries a gun!
    Now you are making statements that if you cannot handle a couple of beers or It should be common sense for any American.
    Well no ****, it should also be common sense not to drink and carry a firearm but I guess you can pick and choose the time, place and level of common sense you employ because you know you limitations.
    No, I was talking about YOUR limitations and being responsible. If you know your limits, follow them. I never said anyone should drink until they can't control themselves, just because they can. Is convolution the only debating skill you have?

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