Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

This is a discussion on Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm OK with MN law (no restrictions on where but you better not blow a 0.04% while carrying) as a good compromise between liberty and ...

View Poll Results: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

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  • No carry at all

    6 1.52%
  • You can carry, just no drinking.

    225 56.82%
  • You can carry, and a drink or two is ok.

    94 23.74%
  • You can carry and drink up to the legal limit of .08 BAC

    48 12.12%
  • Drink as much as you want, it's your choice.

    20 5.05%
  • Don't care / No opinion

    3 0.76%
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Thread: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    I'm OK with MN law (no restrictions on where but you better not blow a 0.04% while carrying) as a good compromise between liberty and public protection.

    PERSONALLY, though, I don't drink and carry. I'd rather not have the beer than deal with a self defense situation with alcohol in my system.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

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  3. #77
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to attempt to correlate posts by people who at different times:

    • condemned open carry, or even wearing of firearms related clothing because it "concedes [an] advantage"
    • stated that they would consume alcohol while carrying


    I'd be far more concerned at losing some fraction of my situational awareness, speed on the draw or accuracy in a gunfight than I would be about somebody knowing or SUSPECTING that I'm carrying a firearm.

    But that's just me.

  4. #78
    Senior Member Array gdm320's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    It would be interesting to attempt to correlate posts by people who at different times:
    I'd also be very interested in seeing something like that... I see a lot of conflicting posts by people in different threads.
    "Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death." -- General Omar Bradley

  5. #79
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    It would be interesting to attempt to correlate posts by people who at different times:

    • condemned open carry, or even wearing of firearms related clothing because it "concedes [an] advantage"
    • stated that they would consume alcohol while carrying


    I'd be far more concerned at losing some fraction of my situational awareness, speed on the draw or accuracy in a gunfight than I would be about somebody knowing or SUSPECTING that I'm carrying a firearm.

    But that's just me.
    That is interesting. I think we would find a very high percentage, especially on a board like defensivecarry where the libertarian mind set is seemingly non existant. I for one open carry, and have been looking for a springfield armory hat to wear:).

  6. #80
    Senior Member Array Holdcard's Avatar
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    I voted a drink or two.

    Arizona permit holders may be in an establishment that serves but we can't drink. I do a lot of things for the sake of the courts if I ever have to use my firearm in defense. So even if I could drink when I'm out, I would choose not to. It's the same with driving, I choose not to open that particular door.

    In my mind, the drink or two implies responsibility, the option of drinking as much as I want to could imply either responsibility or not. I may want 2 or I may want 10.

    Common sense should not be mandated by the state or any other government entity, unfortunately common sense isn't common.

    I'm not a drinker by trade, I will take a drink when I'm thirsty for it. The last 2 six packs I bought wound up getting poured out because they went flat. (NOTE: I'll take a drink when I get thirsty for it, I do not like to be intoxicated, period. I don't like the headaches and not being in control).

    I will tell you this, not drinking often does mess with me. I need to take it slow and see how it will effect me 'this time'. As there are times when I would not want to drive after a half a beer and also times I'm fine after several. As far as I'm concerned that's where responsibility comes into play.

    Just as law enforcement is 'supposed' to be responsible when drinking, I think we should all exhibit responsible behavior.

    Holdcard
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  7. #81
    New Member Array parputt's Avatar
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    Does this REALLY need to be discussed?

  8. #82
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    That is interesting. I think we would find a very high percentage, especially on a board like defensivecarry where the libertarian mind set is seemingly non existant. I for one open carry, and have been looking for a springfield armory hat to wear:).
    An NRA ballcap is more than enough to set some ninnies off!

    I once had one tell me that the NRA should be "banned". When I noted that the last time organizations started getting "banned" we somehow misplaced 6,000,000 Jews, he (an elderly cleaner at McDonalds) replied that he "wasn't sure that was such a bad thing". Although my opinion of the motivations of most anti-gunners had already been confirmed years ago, it was a nice reinforcement.

  9. #83
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdcard View Post
    Just as law enforcement is 'supposed' to be responsible when drinking, I think we should all exhibit responsible behavior.

    Holdcard
    Actually, some Ohio cops recently got in trouble recently for consuming alcohol and firing their firearm in public.

  10. #84
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
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    I carry into a restaurant with a bar and might have one beer with dinner. No more and I dont get up for a while. I never carry into a bar, I dont even go to bars. Using self restraint and normal common since is a must.

  11. #85
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    I always say if I plan to drink more then a few, I will give my gun to the wife who has her LCTF as well. If it is one or two, I will retain it.

  12. #86
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    Well obviously none of us here have as much experience at drinking, carrying a gun, or training in tactics and mindset as you do Jcabin. I wish I had all that experience at the ripe old age of 25, if the drinking age there is 21.
    Please tell me what the name of this bar is where "EVERYONE CARRIES A GUN" I would love to sit in the corner and watch these bar fights where everyone is civil and the drunks have such self control that no one draws a gun.

    "You let people manipulate dangerous machinery while wasted, but they shouldn't be able to defend their lives? Come on, you don't make much sense here."
    As far as I know manipulation or driving of machinery while wasted pretty much anywhere is a crime and yes if a person is wasted they probably wont be able to defend their life anyway armed or not but again I do not have as much experience at carrying and shooting while wasted that you do.

    "Don't tell me consuming alcohol would increase the chance I would over estimate my abilities and could end up dead as a result of that. Firstly, because it won't happen"
    Well again I am sure that no one has your level of experience AND self control but there is a highly technical medical term for this it is called THINKING YOU ARE 10 FEET TALL AND BULLETPROOF.

    "Yeah, someone may do something stupid, but they will be held accountable, sometimes things happen. That is going to happen regardless of restrictive laws or not. This is a basic tenet of liberty. I can't believe how hard this is for so many of you to comprehend."
    You in your massive amount of training in mindset, shooting and drinking experience are probably right someone, somewhere, sometime will do something stupid and an innocent person in going to be hurt, injured or killed and the person responsible will pay a horrible price with criminal and civil judgements. This will be done in the name of liberty and their constitutional right, not knocking the constitution here guys using it as a noun, pronoun whateve it is in a statement, to carry a firearm and get wasted because I know that I as a master of my body I can be wasted and carry my firearm with the prowness of the best mall ninja and throwing away scientific fact that alcohol impairs judgement and relflexes, because everyone else gets that way and not me, will continue to carry in the bars because "EVERYONE" carries there and nothing has happened.
    Why would I be thinking that the headline will read "Twenty something year old man involved in drunken gun battle in Pennsylvania kills innocent bar patron".
    Saying again you are entitled to an opinion as we all are but please do not use in the pursuit of liberty and a constitutional right for an excuse for you to go to a bar and get wasted while carrying a firearm which violates any level of ethical, moral or common sense or any other sense for that matter rule, policy, procedure or recomendation ever created.

  13. #87
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    Sorry almost forgot yes cops do stupid stuff and "most" departments have policy in place in regards to off duty drinking while armed or should have. Most of the time it is prohibited for them to become "impaired" while carrying a weapon. The problem is impaired is subjective statement who is to say when they are impaired. But again any level of alcohol in your system should you become involved in a lethal force encounter will be played to the hilt whether you are right or not.
    Should cops be any different that an armed citizen, Yep they should be held accountable to a higher standard, just my opinion, but they are still human and make mistakes sometimes costing them their jobs or worse.

  14. #88
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well obviously none of us here have as much experience at drinking, carrying a gun, or training in tactics and mindset as you do Jcabin. I wish I had all that experience at the ripe old age of 25, if the drinking age there is 21.
    Please tell me what the name of this bar is where "EVERYONE CARRIES A GUN" I would love to sit in the corner and watch these bar fights where everyone is civil and the drunks have such self control that no one draws a gun.
    Angry because it's the truth? Same exact sentiment anti guns have about people carrying guns in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    As far as I know manipulation or driving of machinery while wasted pretty much anywhere is a crime and yes if a person is wasted they probably wont be able to defend their life anyway armed or not but again I do not have as much experience at carrying and shooting while wasted that you do.
    So a drunk person won't be able to defend their life? Can you prove this? Does this account for all gun owners who drink alcohol? Does a person who has been drinking deserve to be disarmed and deserve to be a victim? What happens if you are minding your own business in a bar and someone walks in and puts you in a lethal self defense situation, but you have no means to defend yourself? Because people like you wanted it prohibited, or thought it was stupid to carry while drinking. Do you just die, become another victim? What? If you can make such bold statements, you certainly must have the right answers, no? Maybe your answer is to ban all guns? I would be suprised if it is not your answer, because it's the road you've been walking down this entire debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well again I am sure that no one has your level of experience AND self control but there is a highly technical medical term for this it is called THINKING YOU ARE 10 FEET TALL AND BULLETPROOF.
    Again, anti gun sentiments... The anti-gun crowd feels that way about all gun owners, especially those who dare to (cringe), carry a gun in public for self defense reasons. There will be blood in the streets!! They will shoot people who cut them off, if you take their parking spot they will murder you and your children!!! BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT!!
    This is all because of two simple reasons; they either know they are incapable of being responsible while carrying a gun, and if they can't do it, then NOBODY WILL! Or, they don't trust the general public enough to allow them to carry guns for self defense purposes, because they are afraid that people can't act responsibly. They are in fear.

    This is your issue. You fall into one of the two groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    You in your massive amount of training in mindset, shooting and drinking experience are probably right someone, somewhere, sometime will do something stupid and an innocent person in going to be hurt, injured or killed and the person responsible will pay a horrible price with criminal and civil judgements. This will be done in the name of liberty and their constitutional right, not knocking the constitution here guys using it as a noun, pronoun whateve it is in a statement, to carry a firearm and get wasted because I know that I as a master of my body I can be wasted and carry my firearm with the prowness of the best mall ninja and throwing away scientific fact that alcohol impairs judgement and relflexes, because everyone else gets that way and not me, will continue to carry in the bars because "EVERYONE" carries there and nothing has happened.
    Why would I be thinking that the headline will read "Twenty something year old man involved in drunken gun battle in Pennsylvania kills innocent bar patron".
    Are you angry because you feel that you are not responsible enough to carry a gun while drinking? Is that why you feel nobody else should be able to do it? Or are you just scared of the general public and don't feel that people are capable of carrying a gun and drinking alcohol, as it presents a danger to your safety?

    What does scientific fact have to do with individual responsibility? Again, anti gun sentiments. If you are incapable of carrying a gun and drinking alcohol, because you know you have poor self restraint and cannot be considered a responsible person, then I truly commend you for knowing your limits. This is what individual responsibility and accountability is all about. Good for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Saying again you are entitled to an opinion as we all are but please do not use in the pursuit of liberty and a constitutional right for an excuse for you to go to a bar and get wasted while carrying a firearm which violates any level of ethical, moral or common sense or any other sense for that matter rule, policy, procedure or recomendation ever created.
    Ethical, moral, common sense, rule, policies, procedure and recommendation? Who's values and policies are these? Yours?

    Does common sense tell you that once you consume alcohol you forfeit the right to self defense, the right to keep and bear arms?

    Is it ethical and moral to disarm and prohibit the act of self defense for law abiding citizens simply because they are consuming alcohol? That seems quite immoral to me, and quite ethical if you follow the likes of those ranked in the third reich.

    Whose policy and procedure is this? The few states who have incredulous laws that prohibit the lawful activity of law abiding citizens? Well, I don't live in those states, and I'm glad. The criminals will still drink and carry in bars. How will you protect yourself when they put a knife to your wifes throat and take turns on her?

    If your response is, WELL DON'T GO TO BARS. No, my friend. That is unacceptable. If you don't approve of drinking and carrying, then you don't go to the bar. Do not attempt to, or act in support of, laws that prohibit the right of law abiding citizens to carry in self defense. Enough with the anti-gun rhetoric. Step back and look at what you are saying.

    Recomendations, the best of all. Recommendations heavily laden with anti-gun sentiment and rhetoric. You may share them, but in my opinion they should be kept to yourself. You need to familiarize yourself with the attributes of a free society, with liberty, with the united states of america, and the principles that our founding fathers created this country with.

    I don't carry to a bar and consume alcohol just because I can, just because it is my right. I carry a gun because I exercise my right to keep and bear arms, because I refuse to become a victim. I consume alcohol, because I enjoy it. As a law abiding citizen, I will do whatever it is that I like to do, so long as I am not infringing on another citizens rights. That is where MY limit is.

  15. #89
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Really? What do you define as "fine"? I can tell you I've drank alot more than 2 beers and my gun never came out of the holster and started killing people, mowing down children, and causing me to become an over zealous slooth, solving crimes by shooting first and asking questions later. Again, anti gun sentiments, that YOU have a problem with, so you don't want other people carrying because it scares YOU. Around here, everyone carries a gun. They carry at the bar too. I've been of drinking age for 4 years now, and guess what, I haven't seen a single shoot out. I've seen plenty of disagreements, sometimes heated arguements, and all parties involved had guns. Guess what, those guns didn't come out of the holster and start shooting. No threats were made about shooting someone to the ground. I can't believe I have to explain this to another gun owner. It's about individual responsibility, and doing what is right.
    Drinking doesn't scare me people like you do. Your accusations are unfounded and insulting. You try to parade your opinion and downplay others while putting words in their mouth. Drinking alcohol and carrying a gun is irresponsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Funny enough you probably have it all backwards. You don't have a problem with people getting drunk and shooting guns in their back yard, but they shouldn't carry one for self defense? Where is the logic behind this? You let people manipulate dangerous machinery while wasted, but they shouldn't be able to defend their lives? Come on, you don't make much sense here.
    Wrong I never said to drink and shoot guns in the back yard, I don't let people do anything that is up to them. You are accusing me of things I have nothing to do with. I also loose respect for people that intentionally get drunk. Sure some people don't realize they had too much it has happened to everyone but intently drinking to get drunk I believe is not responsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Wrong again. Is that what would happen to you, or is it that is what you think would happen to everyone else? So you're scared and don't want people drinking and carrying as a result of this assumption. Something you don't trust about yourself, you project onto the masses. It's the same way anti-gun people feel about all of us who carry guns. They know they couldn't handle a gun because they would shoot someone over getting cut off, or having a parking spot taken, or they just don't trust people in general and are terrified at the thought of the general populace carrying guns. So they want them BANNED BANNED BANNED. How is your sentiment any different? You don't trust yourself or other people to carry and drink, because it scares you. So you don't want anyone carrying and drinking.
    You are incorrect. How is my opinion of someone not drinking while they are carrying the same as banning guns. What you say makes no sense.

    Instead of producing facts and debating your point you call people anti gun and throw a temper tantrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Don't tell me consuming alcohol would increase the chance I would over estimate my abilities and could end up dead as a result of that. Firstly, because it won't happen(but you don't trust me, or other gun owners, so you want it BANNED BANNED BANNED). Secondly, because this is a land of free men, why don't you mind your own business, and not worry about what other people do. Unless they are infringing on your rights, there should be no issue. Yeah, someone may do something stupid, but they will be held accountable, sometimes things happen. That is going to happen regardless of restrictive laws or not. This is a basic tenet of liberty. I can't believe how hard this is for so many of you to comprehend.

    First off I don't trust you because I don't know you, and from your statements and view points I would have a hard time ever trusting you. However you have a right to own a gun. You also are of legal age to drink and you have the freedom to do both but if you aren't responsible enough to keep them separate then I guess that is up to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    To read the amount of opinions displaying anti-gun sentiment in this thread, is what is rediculous
    If your only 25 then you are still way young. You have your opinion and I have mine. To call me anti gun is an incorrect statement. I will leave it at that.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  16. #90
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I'm sorry but science trumps opinion.

    I fail to see how the difference in peoples sober reaction time or their temperament while sober is material here. I am speaking to actual act of killing another human being in defense of yourself or others.

    Yes, there is a slight difference in the time, absorption and thus, effects of alcohol in people. But the chemical reactions to alcohol consumption happen to everyone who consumes. The act of accurately firing a round or twelve into someone else effectively, like a golf shot, requires precision at the point of action to achieve success at a distance away.

    Alcohol creates certain non-voluntary bodily reactions independent of a persons tolerance which can effect the trajectory of the bullet.

    Just as it is incredibly irresponsible to drink and drive, likewise when you're in possession of a firearm.

    HoustonRaven, take a deep breadth. Maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly, but we're having a calm discussion and it seems you're getting all worked up. I'd hate to see how you are after a couple of drinks.

    What I meant by temperament is that some people get violent after a couple of drinks while others become lovey. I'm the latter therefore I see things from that perspective.

    The act of accurately firing a round or twelve into someone else effectively, like a golf shot, requires precision at the point of action to achieve success at a distance away.
    I play golf. I'm better at golf after a beer or two because I'm more relaxed and fluid in motion. I haven't tried that with shooting, but per your analogy, I'd be a better shot too.

    Hmmm, thinking of that for a second, what if a drink actually slowed ones reaction times for a microsecond to counter the affects of adrenaline to where you held your trigger finger until the pistol was accurately pointed at the BG and then you fired. I've been present when people were anxious and had a "twitchy" finger that had them fire three or more rounds when they only meant to fire one. I've seen videos of people firing into the ground while drawing the weapon up to a target. I haven't really thought about it, but I wonder if a drink would have calmed them down to focus on what they were actually doing and where they were on their draw?.? There should be a study on that.

    Realize I'm not talking about getting sloppy drunk. As I mentioned previously, I don't see an issue with a drink or two during a meal, but if the person is impaired, then they should not be carrying.

    Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine. You won't change mine just as I won't change yours.

    Live long and prosper.

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