Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry? - Page 8

Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

This is a discussion on Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis Restaurants yes. Bars NO. Booze and guns are a bad combination. Same...

View Poll Results: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

Voters
396. You may not vote on this poll
  • No carry at all

    6 1.52%
  • You can carry, just no drinking.

    225 56.82%
  • You can carry, and a drink or two is ok.

    94 23.74%
  • You can carry and drink up to the legal limit of .08 BAC

    48 12.12%
  • Drink as much as you want, it's your choice.

    20 5.05%
  • Don't care / No opinion

    3 0.76%
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Thread: Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?

  1. #106
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    Restaurants yes.
    Bars NO.
    Booze and guns are a bad combination.
    Same
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"


  2. #107
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    This would be a much more interesting debate if you guys would quite insulting each other!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  3. #108
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    Unloved dont know that it has ever happened what I am saying is this. In todays society where people are paid millions of dollars because they spill coffee in their lap and then sue because the coffee is to hot, or LEO's are sued by families of criminals because they shot and killed someone in the line of duty legally but the city does not want the hassle of a trial so pays out.
    You may survive the criminal action/investigation without problem, may take a trial and may not but the civil action would be something totally different.
    Remember OJ? Not guilty at the criminal lost it all in the civil trial. Anything would be used against you if you were involved in a shooting and the fact that you had consumed alcohol, and were carrying and using a firearm could/would be used against you, same thing if you were involved in an accident and had been drinking. With that said do you honestly think that if you defended your life by using a firearm and the suspects family, friends, neighbor, attorney, police officer, prosecutor running for reelection found out that you had consumed alcohol they would dismiss that fact because it was a good shooting? Dont think it would happen, I may be wrong but I have a feeling you would be out megabucks to some guys grieving widow, girlfriend, mother or
    3rd cousins brother by the time it was all over with looking out the window of a jail cell.

    Jcabin couple of housekeeping issues. I am a former Marine and LEO. I am currently an armed contractor working for the DOD. I dont do "soldiering" soldiers are in the Army.

    I do not understand why the minute someone disagrees they are automatically anti gun and that every comment they make is anti gun. As was stated by others you do have a 2nd Amendment right to carry a firearm legally the founding fathers did not see fit to include an alcohol provision in the statements though.

    You have made statements yourself that you can handle your alcohol and that it doesnt affect you the way it does others. Alcohol's intended purpose it to alter the body and mind, that is why we drink to obtain that feeling. So with you saying that your level of awareness, skill, judgement and reflexes are not affected then, this is where the training terms come in, you must have a level of training and zen that others have not been able to achieve.

    In not one post have I said that a person should not be able to carry a firearm. I have said that carrying a firearm and consuming alcohol is breaking one of the basic rules of firearm safety.
    To make a statement of typical LEO attitude that no one should carry a gun is both inaccurate and shows a lack of maturity and knowledge. Many police officers are not gun nuts, they carry a gun because they have to not because they want to. They may or may not fire that weapon outside the qualification times, to them it is a tool nothing more. These same officers come in contact with a CCW some may not like the fact that you are carrying, that is their right and as long as they act in accordance of the law not a thing is wrong with it. Others will not care that you are carrying as long as you are doing it legally and in a responsible manner.
    I have stated this before, most CCW holders want the respect and acceptance of law enforcement. They have shown resolve by having gone through what can sometimes be a very long and expensive process to get a permit. They have shown responsibilty and pride in expressing their right to carry a firearm and I personally held them to a higher standard, but then someone, somewhere will say or do things that knocks the good standing and efforts that we have tried so hard to achieve.
    Just imagine that you are leaving the bar wasted and you are carrying a weapon. You come in contact with the police for whatever reason, they find you are carrying and are under the influence. Should you be treated as a responsible citizen who took the time to get a permit to carry legally showing responsibility in exercising your constitutional right, or be treated as just another drunk guy with a gun?
    I am and always have been a gun nut. If a person wants to carry a firearm great, open, concealed, in their vehicle fine as long as they have the level of maturity and responsibility to know what the purpose of carrying that weapon is for.
    The reason myself, you and others carry a firearm is self protection. To defend ourselves and family against a threat. That includes the taking of a human life. The mere sight or presence of a firearm will not make the bad guy go away you may actually have to use it. When that time comes you will experience the fight or flight syndrome.
    Your body will dump massive amounts of natural chemicals into your body causing things to occur such as tunnel vision, a decrease in hearing, loss of fine motor skills, rapid heart rate, elevated blood pressure, increased respirations but through all these things you must still be able to recognize the threat, draw your weapon and engage the target accurately.
    Your marksmanship on the range can drop from 1/3 to 1/2 in a real life situation now add alcohol on top of that which has its own effects and you think that you can still do all the above things while you are wasted.
    Nothing anyone says to you here will change your mind. My very first FTO told me something that I use to this day "When a man gets a case of the dumb***, he gets a case of the dumb***. There is nothing you can do or say that will change his mind until he sees it for himself" I am not comparing or spouting resumes with you because you have none to compare what I am saying is you are young and do not have a lot of life experience. Many on here do.
    You preach liberties and constitutional rights as if you wrote them that is fine keep up with your beliefs and values but show a level of maturity and responsibility that goes along with it. Not the attitude of "he took my crayon".
    So I guess we will have to agree to disagree that carrying a weapon and getting wasted is ok and I trully hope you never have to use your firearm while you are in this condition.

  4. #109
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    Unloved found this on Wikipedia it is just there version of what I was saying.

    Legal Liability
    Even when self-defense is justified, there can be serious civil liabilities related to self-defense when a concealed carry permit holder brandishes or fires his/her weapon. For example, if innocent bystanders are hurt or killed, there could be both civil and criminal liabilities even if the use of deadly force was completely justified. Some states also technically allow an assailant who is shot by a gun owner to bring civil action. In some states, liability is present when a resident brandishes the weapon, threatens use, or exacerbates a volatile situation, or when the resident is carrying while intoxicated.

    Like I said dont know if it has ever happened just saying could be a mess if if did.

  5. #110
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    I think anyone who "can" get a carry license should be able to carry anywhere except schools through grade 12 and any municipal building that is actually secured from un screened intruders and has metal detectors at the doors.

    If they are serious about keeping ME safe while inside then I would be OK with not carrying there. Otherwise it should be wide open.

    Sled

  6. #111
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Lawful activity that does not infringe upon the rights of other citizens is not to be regulated by people like you who are simply in FEAR of what others MIGHT do with said responsibility. How many times do I have to explain this, or is it going to keep flying over your head?




    No, that statement is talking about people who would give up liberty for security. It's talking about people, like you, who would see people disarmed while consuming alcohol because you are afraid of how they might handle such a weighty responsibility. It's talking about how you deserve neither liberty or security if you can't understand what liberty means.




    Are you going to quit it with the "oh, i'm not as good as jcabin, waa" self ingratiating, pity party stuff? You're acting like a 3 year old.




    OK, I'll give you that.




    What am I to be providing facts of? Your lame attempt to ask me to provide facts is akin to a 3 year old saying "whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you". I can't prove what you're saying is not what you really mean. Enough with the semantics, act like an adult.




    Again, self ingratiating, pity party. Is this as far as your debating skills reach?




    I'm clearly talking about liberty, under the context of being armed while consuming alcohol. If you choose to ignore that and pick only the parts you cannot comprehend out and work on that, then I can no longer continue this debate with you. You have avoided every single statement I have made about my disagreement with your opinion, and chose to act like a child and claim I'm attacking you personally. If you wish to finally explain why one deserves to lose the right to self defense, or deserves victimhood, simply because they are consuming alcohol, then proceed. But for the love of god, enough with the semantics.
    I am getting tired of the insults. If you can't debate like a mature adult then I see no further reason to continue. The concept doesn't fly over anyone's head, you took that quote out of context... period.

    Drinking and driving is unwise and so is drinking and carrying. My belief is they should be separate. Your belief is people should drink however much they want and carry. Why not it's what the fore fathers wanted...right?

    You have to realize you are debating people's opinion. Not a law, not a rule and not an issue. Still at the current time in many states CCW is not allowed in bars or restaurants that serve alcohol. Why? Because there are a large number of people that DO think that guns and alcohol don't mix, many of whom AREN'T anti gun. The sad part is many of them don't realize that some people that go to a restaurant or bar that serves alcohol won't always drink. Many others believe the presence of a gun will turn a simple argument into a shooting. This is obviously not true.

    I believe that if someone decides to get smashed then the least they can do is to find a responsible designated driver. The other thing they could do is take a DD friend along that has a CCW.

    Drink responsibly, be responsible.

    Do you drive after you drink?
    Do you go to the range after you drink?
    Do you reload ammo after you drink?
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  7. #112
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    Here is the real question.

    I understand that many folks would not even take a sip of beer while carrying and that is just ginger peachy with me.

    It's fantastic that is your personal preference. Kudos.

    But, would you want a law passed that would make it an illegal and punishable offense to have a beer while carrying.

    If your dear old Dad goes to a wedding and he is carrying a firearm and had a little glass of champagne would it be OK with you if he lost his license to carry a firearm...got fined and maybe did a little jail time before court?

    I mean...after all he was more than OK to drive MOM and the Grand-kids home after the wedding after having had that celebratory little toast to the bride and groom...but, he should do some jail time because he has a holstered firearm on his person?

    Be very careful to differentiate what you personally would do or not do from what you want made an illegal and punishable offense.

  8. #113
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I believe the title of this thread was
    Where do you stand on restaurant/bar carry?
    I took it to be an opinion based thread. I believe I have stated my opinion.


    As for any new laws restricting law abiding citizen's gun rights. I vote no.
    That is not a hypocritical statement.
    My opinion isn't law nor would I peruse it to be law. Personally I don't drink and drive even if under .08 BAC. Doesn't mean I want it to be law
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  9. #114
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Unloved dont know that it has ever happened what I am saying is this. In todays society where people are paid millions of dollars because they spill coffee in their lap and then sue because the coffee is to hot, or LEO's are sued by families of criminals because they shot and killed someone in the line of duty legally but the city does not want the hassle of a trial so pays out.
    You may survive the criminal action/investigation without problem, may take a trial and may not but the civil action would be something totally different.
    Remember OJ? Not guilty at the criminal lost it all in the civil trial. Anything would be used against you if you were involved in a shooting and the fact that you had consumed alcohol, and were carrying and using a firearm could/would be used against you, same thing if you were involved in an accident and had been drinking. With that said do you honestly think that if you defended your life by using a firearm and the suspects family, friends, neighbor, attorney, police officer, prosecutor running for reelection found out that you had consumed alcohol they would dismiss that fact because it was a good shooting? Dont think it would happen, I may be wrong but I have a feeling you would be out megabucks to some guys grieving widow, girlfriend, mother or
    3rd cousins brother by the time it was all over with looking out the window of a jail cell.

    Jcabin couple of housekeeping issues. I am a former Marine and LEO. I am currently an armed contractor working for the DOD. I dont do "soldiering" soldiers are in the Army.

    I do not understand why the minute someone disagrees they are automatically anti gun and that every comment they make is anti gun. As was stated by others you do have a 2nd Amendment right to carry a firearm legally the founding fathers did not see fit to include an alcohol provision in the statements though.

    You have made statements yourself that you can handle your alcohol and that it doesnt affect you the way it does others. Alcohol's intended purpose it to alter the body and mind, that is why we drink to obtain that feeling. So with you saying that your level of awareness, skill, judgement and reflexes are not affected then, this is where the training terms come in, you must have a level of training and zen that others have not been able to achieve.

    In not one post have I said that a person should not be able to carry a firearm. I have said that carrying a firearm and consuming alcohol is breaking one of the basic rules of firearm safety.
    To make a statement of typical LEO attitude that no one should carry a gun is both inaccurate and shows a lack of maturity and knowledge. Many police officers are not gun nuts, they carry a gun because they have to not because they want to. They may or may not fire that weapon outside the qualification times, to them it is a tool nothing more. These same officers come in contact with a CCW some may not like the fact that you are carrying, that is their right and as long as they act in accordance of the law not a thing is wrong with it. Others will not care that you are carrying as long as you are doing it legally and in a responsible manner.
    I have stated this before, most CCW holders want the respect and acceptance of law enforcement. They have shown resolve by having gone through what can sometimes be a very long and expensive process to get a permit. They have shown responsibilty and pride in expressing their right to carry a firearm and I personally held them to a higher standard, but then someone, somewhere will say or do things that knocks the good standing and efforts that we have tried so hard to achieve.
    Just imagine that you are leaving the bar wasted and you are carrying a weapon. You come in contact with the police for whatever reason, they find you are carrying and are under the influence. Should you be treated as a responsible citizen who took the time to get a permit to carry legally showing responsibility in exercising your constitutional right, or be treated as just another drunk guy with a gun?
    I am and always have been a gun nut. If a person wants to carry a firearm great, open, concealed, in their vehicle fine as long as they have the level of maturity and responsibility to know what the purpose of carrying that weapon is for.
    The reason myself, you and others carry a firearm is self protection. To defend ourselves and family against a threat. That includes the taking of a human life. The mere sight or presence of a firearm will not make the bad guy go away you may actually have to use it. When that time comes you will experience the fight or flight syndrome.
    Your body will dump massive amounts of natural chemicals into your body causing things to occur such as tunnel vision, a decrease in hearing, loss of fine motor skills, rapid heart rate, elevated blood pressure, increased respirations but through all these things you must still be able to recognize the threat, draw your weapon and engage the target accurately.
    Your marksmanship on the range can drop from 1/3 to 1/2 in a real life situation now add alcohol on top of that which has its own effects and you think that you can still do all the above things while you are wasted.
    Nothing anyone says to you here will change your mind. My very first FTO told me something that I use to this day "When a man gets a case of the dumb***, he gets a case of the dumb***. There is nothing you can do or say that will change his mind until he sees it for himself" I am not comparing or spouting resumes with you because you have none to compare what I am saying is you are young and do not have a lot of life experience. Many on here do.
    You preach liberties and constitutional rights as if you wrote them that is fine keep up with your beliefs and values but show a level of maturity and responsibility that goes along with it. Not the attitude of "he took my crayon".
    So I guess we will have to agree to disagree that carrying a weapon and getting wasted is ok and I trully hope you never have to use your firearm while you are in this condition.
    Well said
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  10. #115
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    Nobody is talking about leaving a restaurant "wasted"
    Well pretend then that the wedding reception took place in a classy restaurant.
    In Pennsylvania restaurant & bar carry is OK and there is no law against the consumption of alcohol while carrying and we do not have negligent discharges and gun accidents happening in restaurants all across Pennsylvania.

    It just isn't happening. That is the real world reality of the situation.

    It's NOT the "blood in the streets" argument that the anti-gunners use in order to prevent folks from legally carrying.
    We have no extra blood in the streets just because our gun laws are less restrictive here.

    Hopefully the vast majority of folks that legally carry a firearm for personal protection are already responsible adults capable of making personal choice rational responsible decisions.

    We do not need more gun laws to further restrict our personal freedoms.

    Personal responsibility folks - it works every time it's tried.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  11. #116
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    The last thing you want if you are involved in a use of force situation is to have alcohol in your system. Carry Yes. Drink No.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  12. #117
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    I voted no drinks even though I feel 1 or 2 would be fine. The issue is perception and like it or not, agree or not, perception is real and can bite you on the ass.

    That said my stance is that I want to be able to legally carry my firearm anywhere a bad guy can carry his (or her's. Let's be fair.)
    Registration: A prelude to Confiscation and Anarchy.

  13. #118
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    QK the wasted comments were from an earlier post from someone that it is his right to carry a firearm and get wasted without restrictions or consequences not to your post.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #119
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    I find it astounding that 41% of the people on this board (assuming the poll reflects a valid cross section of the board's opinion) don't have a problem with drinking and carrying a handgun. This high number is totally inconsistent with the generally strident attitudes on both safety and situational awareness found elsewhere on this board.

    I don't think anyone can dispute that both judgment and coordination begin to deteriorate with the consumption of even minimal amounts of alcohol. I don't understand how some of you among those 41% would not leave the house with fewer than 3 guns, reloads for each, a knife and a flashlight yet would give away the tactical advantage (not to mention endangering the lives of others) by drinking and carrying.

    I should add that I like to eat out, like to drink and prefer to carry. I am very pleased that Virginia now permits carry in restaurants (there are no 'bars' as such in VA). Yes, I could probably manage to drink a few drinks with my meal while still retaining some ability to both think and shoot, but giving away any margin of safety or tactical advantage is blithely contrary to how I carry and why I carry

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    QK the wasted comments were from an earlier post from someone that it is his right to carry a firearm and get wasted without restrictions or consequences not to your post.
    If you're referring to jcabin, he never said any such thing.

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