Suing stores that ban guns - Page 9

Suing stores that ban guns

This is a discussion on Suing stores that ban guns within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TCWVHW Millions of business owners said the same thing in the early sixty's when they elected not to serve blacks! Think about ...

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Thread: Suing stores that ban guns

  1. #121
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCWVHW View Post
    Millions of business owners said the same thing in the early sixty's when they elected not to serve blacks!

    Think about it.

    Tom
    Apparently you (like me) choose to carry a gun. Do you know anybody who chose their race (and you cannot cite Michael Jackson as your example)? I really hate the civil rights comparison.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".


  2. #122
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Private property, be D*m#ed.
    How is it we only respect the rights that affect us in a way we like?
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  3. #123
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    How is it we only respect the rights that affect us in a way we like?
    Gonzo
    Right.

    That's the great good we have in the Constitution. Passing popular choice about which rights we honor and which we trample over is not the final word, The Constitution is. Otherwise, sooner of later we'd all be at the mercy of whatever popular choice was current as regards whose rights were in favor and whose expendable at the moment. If you deny the right of business owners to make decisions about their own property, you deny your right to be left in peace in your own home. The sword cuts both ways.

    "Be careful of what you wish for".

  4. #124
    Ex Member Array HoustonRaven's Avatar
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    MitchellCT is dead on. This is not an issue based on opinion. It's one that has been decided time and time again in the courts.

    This is not a complex issue and I am shocked that there are some here, who I am sure rail against Government intrusion on our lives, are actually in favor of being allowed to sue someone / businesses that do not allow CC.

    There is no implied invitation, extension of carry rights or any sort of thing on private property. Period. End of subject. My back up to my argument? The Supreme Court in over 75 cases dealing directly with rights of the individual and corporations who own property.

    When I found out California Pizza Kitchen was asking CC'ers to leave, I stopped eating there even though I love their BBQ chicken pizza.

    Ditto for Peet's Coffee and BW3's when I travel via Hobby Airport.

  5. #125
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    MitchellCT is dead on. This is not an issue based on opinion. It's one that has been decided time and time again in the courts.

    This is not a complex issue and I am shocked that there are some here, who I am sure rail against Government intrusion on our lives, are actually in favor of being allowed to sue someone / businesses that do not allow CC.

    There is no implied invitation, extension of carry rights or any sort of thing on private property. Period. End of subject. My back up to my argument? The Supreme Court in over 75 cases dealing directly with rights of the individual and corporations who own property.

    When I found out California Pizza Kitchen was asking CC'ers to leave, I stopped eating there even though I love their BBQ chicken pizza.

    Ditto for Peet's Coffee and BW3's when I travel via Hobby Airport.
    Except you're in TX where a sign has the weight of law protecting the business. In FL the sign means nothing and they cannot prevent you from carrying on their business. Like I said, they can ask you to leave and after that you can be charged with trespass. In FL, if you're concealed you're safe no matter what.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  6. #126
    Member Array Jungle Work's Avatar
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    I know of a business that did not allow the carrying of weapon on their premis by citizens or employees and the County had a bad man in for treatment. The bad man got away from the deputies and the company's security guards ran the other way. A lady employee was taken hostage and sexually assaulted. The lady employee became a multimillionaire.

    Jungle Work
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    CURRAHEE My Brothers In Blood

  7. #127
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    I know of a business that did not allow the carrying of weapon on their premis by citizens or employees and the County had a bad man in for treatment. The bad man got away from the deputies and the company's security guards ran the other way. A lady employee was taken hostage and sexually assaulted. The lady employee became a multimillionaire.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, but you've left out all details, the main one being: who did she sue successfully? If it was the County she likely had a case if the man brought in was violent - had a violent crime he was convicted of etc. The county might have been liable for not providing adequate retention, like guards, or proper procedures, when they brought him onto a private person's (business's) premises. The woman, necessarily present as an employee of the business on the premises, was damaged due to the county's negligence.

    Perhaps she sued the agency providing the business's security guards - or the business itself if they hired them - for substandard professional security performance. Guards are not supposed to run away when needed.

    If it was either of these, it would be completely different than a posted store that a person chose to walk into.

    But without details, this case - and if and how it relates to the matter discussed here - is a mystery.

  8. #128
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    MitchellCT is dead on. This is not an issue based on opinion. It's one that has been decided time and time again in the courts.

    This is not a complex issue and I am shocked that there are some here, who I am sure rail against Government intrusion on our lives, are actually in favor of being allowed to sue someone / businesses that do not allow CC.

    There is no implied invitation, extension of carry rights or any sort of thing on private property. Period. End of subject. My back up to my argument? The Supreme Court in over 75 cases dealing directly with rights of the individual and corporations who own property.

    When I found out California Pizza Kitchen was asking CC'ers to leave, I stopped eating there even though I love their BBQ chicken pizza.

    Ditto for Peet's Coffee and BW3's when I travel via Hobby Airport.
    Not exactly. There are reasons why a customer in a store is given the legal title "Invitee," and is given far more legal protection than is a "Licensee" (nothing to do with having any kind of actual license) or much less, a "Trespasser." I cut my courtroom teeth trying premises liability cases on behalf of a supermarket store chain, so I know a little bit about premises liability law. I usually won them, further demonstrating my earlier point: Anybody can sue anybody for anything. Doesn't mean you get to win.

  9. #129
    Ex Member Array HoustonRaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLeVick View Post
    Not exactly. There are reasons why a customer in a store is given the legal title "Invitee," and is given far more legal protection than is a "Licensee" (nothing to do with having any kind of actual license) or much less, a "Trespasser."
    I am not a lawyer but The Girlfriend (tm) is and doesnt see how premises liability applies in this thread discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLeVick View Post
    I cut my courtroom teeth trying premises liability cases on behalf of a supermarket store chain, so I know a little bit about premises liability law. I usually won them, further demonstrating my earlier point: Anybody can sue anybody for anything. Doesn't mean you get to win.
    Very true. And she's a wealthy woman because of it. ;)

  10. #130
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Hmmm, Houston, interesting point, but it really is a premises liability discussion. Maybe we are being too loose with terminology, though. There are basically two theories of premises liability, depending upon the negligent acts alleged, and different jury instructions are given. Any suit against a premises occupier for negligent or grossly negligent acts falls into one of these categories. A suit based on posting a 30.06 sign would be a "negligent activity" case, I believe, as opposed to what we often call a "pure premises" case, like a slip and fall on a wet floor. I suppose some folks would take "inadequate security" cases out of the definition of premises cases, but they are still a species of premises case. These would be a similar subcategory.

    Oh, and congratulations on the wealthy girlfriend, though I wouldn't want to be married to a lawyer. I sure did screw up, though, not marrying a rich girl...

  11. #131
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    I'm having a bad flashback to Legal Research & Writing, circa 2000.

    I am nostalgic for my old rig...

    S&W 637 rated for +p without a lock and a few speed loaders of 110 grain Federal Low Recoil Personal Defense Hydrashock, a RJ Martin Kozuka with Red Stingray & a dragon menuki and an Emerson CQC-7Waved, black blade with serations.

    Ah. Those were the days.

    Shooting.
    Jujitsu.
    Drinking.
    &
    School.

    I'm so old...I wanna cry.

  12. #132
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
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    Aaaaah, Mitchell, you arent old!! I was 31 when I started law school, with a wife and 3 kids, and I finished in 1987. You ain't seen nothin' yet!

  13. #133
    Member Array jsunsr's Avatar
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    I believe that gun owners should carry their own sign. When they go to a business that has a 'no guns' sign in a municipality that the citizens have collectively agreed that carrying a firearm is ok then the gun owners should pull out their sign that says, 'this establishment discriminates against gun owners and refuses to recognize the laws within the location it does business'. I know the law allows them to put up a sign, but, the law also allows you to stand on a public sidewalk with your sign. If business owners are afraid of legal CCW customers, let them carry their own gun.

    I'm not allowed to CCW in Illinois and if I lived in a state that did allow it I'd be very critical of business' who expect me to disarm myself outside in order to enter their business.

    I would attempt to organize a demonstration by CCW's. If there are a group of demonstrators outside his store carrying afformentioned signs I'd suspect other customers going into his store may not want to cross the picket line.

    Other people have to realize he is not only discriminating against CCW he is discriminating against gun owners in general. The liberals discriminate against anyone who doesn't see things their way. Why do we conservatives not use all our influences to tell people how we won't things done. We have to stop being sheep and become sheep dogs.

    I definitely would not buy anything at that store. See how he likes discrimination.

  14. #134
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    From jsunsr:

    "I would attempt to organize a demonstration by CCW's. If there are a group of demonstrators outside his store carrying afformentioned signs I'd suspect other customers going into his store may not want to cross the picket line.

    Other people have to realize he is not only discriminating against CCW he is discriminating against gun owners in general. The liberals discriminate against anyone who doesn't see things their way. Why do we conservatives not use all our influences to tell people how we won't things done. We have to stop being sheep and become sheep dogs. "

    You and your fellow Illinois citizens need to be doing this in front of your state capitol building. Until all of you can carry, no business is really is taking anything away from you. Don't just say it, do it. Demonstrate at the capitol. I've done it and I've raised h---y h--l with my Representatives. You have to change the law or it will always just be a "pipe dream."
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  15. #135
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsunsr View Post
    I believe that gun owners should carry their own sign. When they go to a business that has a 'no guns' sign in a municipality that the citizens have collectively agreed that carrying a firearm is ok then the gun owners should pull out their sign that says, 'this establishment discriminates against gun owners and refuses to recognize the laws within the location it does business'. I know the law allows them to put up a sign, but, the law also allows you to stand on a public sidewalk with your sign. If business owners are afraid of legal CCW customers, let them carry their own gun.

    .
    maybe the gunowners sign or tshirt should read "i discriminate against people & businesses who choose to exercise their right to legally posting their private property...because my rights are the only ones that count"...

    be honest if youre gonna exercise your right to free speech...

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