Laser for small sighted guns - Page 2

Laser for small sighted guns

This is a discussion on Laser for small sighted guns within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rednecksport I have to disagree on this one what takes longer, pull my P3AT out of my pocket holster, raise to eye ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rednecksport View Post
    I have to disagree on this one what takes longer, pull my P3AT out of my pocket holster, raise to eye level, find the proper sight picture, (already a chore with the small sights)and pull the trigger. Or Pull it out . place the red dot on BG's chest , pull the trigger. Im not saying that you should forget or not learn to use your sights,every one that carrys should be proficient with them,but If given the option, I think at least 95% of the people who have used the crimson trace grips dont want to be without them. Buy them when they become available you wont be disappointed.
    I tried laser on Glock 22. It slowed me down . First off, at the range I would shoot or need to shoot my J-Frame (and you your P3AT) I don't go for a "correct" sight picture. I look for front sight (painted red) or just point whole gun (at very close range.) I can keep all my shots in 4" ring out to 25'. According to my old mentor, LTC (USMC-Ret) John D. Cooper, if you are getting tight groups in defensive shooting, you are "shooting too d**n slow!" so 4" is acceptable to me.

    I practice all the time without my glasses (worst case scenario) and the laser dot can be very difficult to pick up. If the laser works for you, by all means use it. But it doesn't work for everybody and it for sure is not a substitute for practice. I find at close range that a good steady trigger press and reset is a whole lot more important than a good sight picture.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post

    I tried laser on Glock 22. It slowed me down.

    According to my old mentor, LTC (USMC-Ret) John D. Cooper, if you are getting tight groups in defensive shooting, you are "shooting too d**n slow!" so 4" is acceptable to me.
    Absolutely true. This is the way modern defensive pistol shooting is taught: if your groups are too tight, open them up by shooting faster.

    And I don't care if a laser will allow you to shoot out a gnats eye at 100 yards, since we are talking 99.9% up-close-and-personal defensive use here, not shooting at the range and taking your sweet time.

    Bringing up the pistol, aiming at the COM with your front site, and pulling the trigger, is a heck of a lot faster than checking if your little red laser designator is right on the bad guy's chest or not!!

    PS: And think about it; if the laser was so darn effective, why wouldn't the average beat cop (not SWAT), as well as military pistols, all be using a laser??

    -Bill

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    To some repliers: I am not bad mouthing lasers. They have their purpose in many ways. All I am saying is that in a close-in situation, time is of the essence and acquiring a laser or a good sight takes time, albeit fractions of a second; when a slime is less than 15 ft from you, you do not have fractions of a second. All I ask for all of you to do is to at least practice and try point shooting BEFORE you spend a bunch of $$ on a laser. In my case, I have found that under my scenario (and I appreciate there are what ifs out there) for defense with a small 380, my limitations will be use of my firearm at less than 15 ft and point shooting provides me with center mass accuracy and I have saved myself a bit of money on a laser I do not need. This is just a suggestion and is not a criticism of those who feel that the laser and expensive sights on a small 380 or similar are a necessity and/or a benefit. I apologize to those who feel my comments are anything more than a suggestion based on my own personal experiences.

  4. #19
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will B. Droopy View Post

    And I don't care if a laser will allow you to shoot out a gnats eye at 100 yards, since we are talking 99.9% up-close-and-personal defensive use here, not shooting at the range and taking your sweet time.
    I think we're talking about several issues at the same time here. Nobody is suggesting, as far as I can tell, that one should start using the laser as the means to aim in a up-close-and-personal defensive situation.

    And, yes, it's quite fun to shoot 4 inch groups at 25 yards without glasses with weak-hand-only using a laser.

    The laser is a tool, and a very nice tool at that. It's perfect in some practice sessions and you don't have to expose yourself in certain SD situations, not to mention low-light advantages.

    In real up-close-and-personal defensive shooting trying to acquire a sight picture really slows you down. It's point shooting time.

    Just my 2 cents.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    In an up-close-right-now, you don't use sights either.

    Lasers have a few very real advantages:
    - you don't have to have the weapon up in your eyes to fire accurately.
    - It's an additional intimidation factor for situations where you don't fire right away.
    - It provides instant feedback for dry fire practice.
    - It is instinctive aiming.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  6. #21
    Member Array mj40p's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Will B. Droopy;1611146]Absolutely true. This is the way modern defensive pistol shooting is taught: if your groups are too tight, open them up by shooting faster.

    And I don't care if a laser will allow you to shoot out a gnats eye at 100 yards, since we are talking 99.9% up-close-and-personal defensive use here, not shooting at the range and taking your sweet time.

    Bringing up the pistol, aiming at the COM with your front site, and pulling the trigger, is a heck of a lot faster than checking if your little red laser designator is right on the bad guy's chest or not!!

    PS: And think about it; if the laser was so darn effective, why wouldn't the average beat cop (not SWAT), as well as military pistols, all be using a laser??

    -Bill [/QUOTE
    You may need to fire while bringing the gun up before you can get a sight picture. The laser could make the difference of getting a good center of mass hit or an arm shot or a mis without having a sight picture. The average beat cop only has a 20% hit ratio. Plus they usually have backup. What is another 200-300 dollars when it's your life or your loved ones lives that are being threatened. I hope I am never in that situation but if I am I want every advantage I can get. It looks like this thread is turning into something simillar to a 9mm vs 45 debate.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    The main reason was a three in the morning intruder and you wake up a not fully awake its dark and you cant tell what your pointing at. Lots of good posts and thank you guys. Sorry if this gets into a laser/no laser argument, not what I was trying to do.

  8. #23
    Member Array owsi's Avatar
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    I'm a huge laser fan. I forget the percentage but the majority of SD occurs in low light. I have both night sights and lasers on all of my carry guns. I have a Ruger LCP (.380) with a CT laser on it. The rest of my lasers are Lasermax. The laser is very good for dry fire practice. You might be surprised at the amount of
    movement when you pull the trigger - a laser readily shows this.

  9. #24
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyColby View Post
    Lots of good posts and thank you guys. Sorry if this gets into a laser/no laser argument, not what I was trying to do.
    I've found in my short life that the more dialogue the better, as long as it stays civilized. I try to educate myself on the issues thoroughly, but numerous times I've found myself saying, "I did not think of that."

    The laser issue is no different, our experiences and mileage vary.

    It's a free country - mostly. People are free to purchase lasers or stay with the iron sights. I'll bet that for most of us older folks with blurring eyes the laser has been a positive experience.

    I'm going to install more lasers regardless of the cost. They are just too much fun and offer a totally unique tactical advantage.

    I recall when people started to utilize red dots in practical shooting competitions. Many orthodox shooters quit; because it was not 'practical' anymore. IDPA was born.

    Now red dots are being installed to carry guns.

    Good thread, thanks CC for starting it.

  10. #25
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    If you are in an 'up close' situation where the need of using that 'belly gun' presents itself, you won't have the time to think about sights or lasers...it's going to be point and shoot.OMOYMV
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  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK87 View Post
    In an up-close-right-now, you don't use sights either.

    Lasers have a few very real advantages:
    - you don't have to have the weapon up in your eyes to fire accurately.
    - It's an additional intimidation factor for situations where you don't fire right away.
    - It provides instant feedback for dry fire practice.
    - It is instinctive aiming.
    I bought CT grips for my Charter "Off Duty" .38sp. It does provide instant feedback for dry fire practice, and it can be a useful addition.

    However, I have to disagree on the "intimidation factor". To quote your own signature, "When you have to shoot, shoot! Don't talk."
    If you're downrange of a laser, you can't see it unless it's being pointed directly in your eyes. The red beams you see on TV SWAT weapons are a special effect.

    I found at the range a couple of issues.

    1. It required concentration to keep the darn thing lit. My fat fingers don't seem to work well with it. Seems the button is located precisely where my finger bends at the front of the grip.
    2. Laser grips on a "snubby". Next I'll be shelling out cash for a scope for my .410.
    It didn't really help my accuracy much.
    3. I found I prefer the stock grip for carry. It's shorter and seems more concealable to me.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    I would like one of my firearms to have a laser and this one seemed the most sensible due to the fact I carry it everywhere especially in the summer and around the house. Not that I don't have others that would be better for HD but this little thing slips into any pocket, is very comfortable, and conceals easily even if I just have a pair of shorts on. If someone broke into my house late at night with ill intentions they must come down a long hallway to get to me so I doubt they can sneak up on me especially with my dogs being there. I just would hate to wake up to the growls of my dog hear my door getting broke down grab my firearm see a silhouette in the hall way with a weapon and if forced to shoot miss a couple times due to the fact i'm groggy and can't see that well. Even with a flashlight its tough to see the sights. Night sights on these things don't exist that I know of. Normally when things go bump in the night I grab this little gun because its size and everytime thus far the bumps have been nothing more than usually a coyote on the porch or around the house. I usually walk 3/4 down the hallway and shine my light at the door and my dog to see which direction he is focused on. My shotgun is also next to my bed so if it were something I would retreat to it but there maybe a time its more than a coyote and I must fire in order to get back to my shotgun.

  13. #28
    New Member Array knock's Avatar
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    I think it exsists...

    They do make a CT for the TCP 738. I think it is the LG407. I don't have a TCP or a LG407, but am thinking about adding it to the collection.

    You may have to buy a couple of new holsters, or make some modifications to holsters you already have.

    Here is one available option:
    Crimson Trace CTC Laserguard Taurus Tcp LG-407 FREE S&H LG-407. Crimson Trace Laser Sights.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I traded for a 1911 that had brand new Crimson Tace sight. I never used it. Last week I for my wifes bday I paid for her CCW permit and took her to do all the running around involved with it. Then I took her gun shopping. She picked out a S&W 642 CT. After about 100 rounds I dailed in her CT and mine on my 1911. I have not spent any time training with it. I just turn it on when I am not shooting. Doesn't really take any training, pretty much a no brainer. Trigger control while keeping red dot on target. Run a couple of rounds through using the laser every couple of weeks will probably be about all we ever do in the way of training with the laser.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  15. #30
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    Not every time you pull your weapon has to result in firing. The red dot on the chest may help stop the situation short of having to shoot.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

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