I goofed last night

This is a discussion on I goofed last night within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well it was late last night, round about 10, and a friend calls me and explains she's having a get together etc, at her new ...

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Thread: I goofed last night

  1. #1
    Member Array PRSOrator's Avatar
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    I goofed last night

    Well it was late last night, round about 10, and a friend calls me and explains she's having a get together etc, at her new apartment.

    Well her new place is about an hour north of me, in a city with a high crime rate, and I wasn't planning on drinking so the XD .45 goes IWB, I grab my cellphone, keys, knife, flashlight, and head out the door.

    I'm about half way there when I realize I hadn't had anything to eat all day (work was busy) so I pulled off at a Sheetz (it's a gas station fast food) to grab a quick bite. Now usually when I get out of my car every time I do the "pat down" which is my systematic checking of pockets for everything previously mentioned. XD concealed? Check. Phone? Check. Knife? Check. Flashlight? Check. Keys? Check. Wallet?..... Wallet? .....WALLET?!

    A hollow and pitting feeling sunk into my stomach, for the first time in years not only did I leave my wallet on my dresser, but I was armed and driving without my CCL. I immediately got back into my car, made sure I was out of the public eye, and cautiously disarmed, unloaded my firearm, place the ammo in the glovebox, my XD into my lock box, removed my lock box from its cable and placed it in my trunk. Then cautiously drove the 30 minutes back home, only to start my journey all over again.

    Now as far as I know it is illegal to have a firearm loaded in your vehicle in the state of PA without a permit, this is why the ammo came out and went into a seperate compartment, but from what I've read in the past, usually transporting a firearm without a permit (with or without ammo) is allowed in a justified manner such as going to or from a range, gunsmith / store, personal business and your home. I was doing none of these, could I have gotten into so deep if I was pulled over? Do you think the LEO would have been forgiving and let me off the hook with a warning or was I jeopardizing my right to a CCL? Would you guys have handled the situation differently (besides NOT leaving the home without your wallet and CCL)?

    Any LEOs feel free to chime in, also I made it home okay and enjoyed the rest of my night feeling safe and without incident.

    Cheers!

    -Pat

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array WhoWeBePart1's Avatar
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    You might want to read this thread. As I stated in that one I keep a copy of my DL and CFP in my glove box.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...my-wallet.html

  4. #3
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Lesson learned. You did fine.

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    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Often when I go down the road to the stop and rob, I hate to carry my wallet but have to because I'll have my gun with me. I don't know how a LEO would handle me having a gun and not being able to produce my permit. I do know that there would be a 80% chance that I would be in handcuffs for a while until everything is is worked out.
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    If I were the LEO who might have stopped you, It wouldn't have been a big deal at all assuming that your permit status is readily searchable and verifiable.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #6
    Member Array CajunBass's Avatar
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    How many times has a cop or anyone else walked up to you and said "Papers please" and you had to actually show your permit? I'm willing to bet never. So what changed? You forgot your wallet. Big deal. Go home and get it. It can't be but so far away.
    For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRSOrator View Post
    I immediately got back into my car, made sure I was out of the public eye, and cautiously disarmed, unloaded my firearm, place the ammo in the glovebox, my XD into my lock box, removed my lock box from its cable and placed it in my trunk.
    It is generally illegal to have a firearm in (or on, in the case of a motorcycle) a vehicle in Pennsylvania if you do not hold a PA License To Carry Firearms, or a license/permit issued by another state. Loaded, or not, locked up, or not, in the passenger compartment, or in the trunk, unless you meet the requirements of one of the narrow exceptions. Visiting a friend does not fall under any of the exceptions.
    Now as far as I know it is illegal to have a firearm loaded in your vehicle in the state of PA without a permit, this is why the ammo came out and went into a seperate compartment, but from what I've read in the past, usually transporting a firearm without a permit (with or without ammo) is allowed in a justified manner such as going to or from a range, gunsmith / store, personal business and your home. I was doing none of these, could I have gotten into so deep if I was pulled over?
    Here is the relevant section of statute. You'd do well to familiarize yourself with it, as well as all of the statutes relating to possession, and carry, of firearms in PA.
    Quote Originally Posted by 18 Pa.C.S. 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
    (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
    (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
    (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.
    (5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
    (6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
    (7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
    (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.
    (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
    (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
    (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
    (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.
    (13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
    (14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).
    (15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:
    (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.
    (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.
    Do you think the LEO would have been forgiving and let me off the hook with a warning or was I jeopardizing my right to a CCL? Would you guys have handled the situation differently (besides NOT leaving the home without your wallet and CCL)?
    Pennsylvania does not issue Concealed Carry Licenses. Pennsylvania issues Licenses to Carry Firearms.

    Had you been stopped, and had it been discovered that you had a firearm in your vehicle, but no license on your person, there is a provision for demonstrating that you are licensed.
    Quote Originally Posted by 18 Pa.C.S. 6122: Proof of license and exception
    (a) General rule.--When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.
    (b) Exception.--An individual carrying a firearm on or about his person or in a vehicle and claiming an exception under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce satisfactory evidence of qualification for exception.
    Many Pennsylvanians keep photocopies of their LTCFs in vehicles, etc. for just such an occasion as the one you've related.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MN2Go View Post
    Lesson learned. You did fine.
    Concur.

    I try to do the personal 'pat-down' before I leave to go anywhere. Make it a habit prior to saddeling up.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Also...I believe you can OC in PA without a permit....
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Member Array cardinalfan's Avatar
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    In Missouri, you can have a firearm in your vehicle concealed or in plain view as long as you are 18 and legally able to own a firearm. I guess the problem is when you get out. In your situation, you would have been fine here as long as you didn't take it out and conceal it once you arrived. But, you would still be driving "without your license on your person" which is still a ticketable offense. I believe as the others that you did the right thing in going back to get your wallet, if nothing else for the driving license.

  12. #11
    Member Array Blackheart6's Avatar
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    Cardinalfan

    I believe it's 21 in MO to carry in your vehicle without a liscense. 23 to obtain a CCW. Although a Bill is working it's way through that would bring the CCW age to 21. Personally, I don't know many 18 year olds I would trust driving around with a handgun, that are not serving in the military.

    Regards,
    Josh

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array harley2007's Avatar
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    Lesson learned.
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  14. #13
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Also...I believe you can OC in PA without a permit....
    Yes, but a license is required if you're in a vehicle. If you don't have a license, and you aren't excepted, you commit a felony by having a firearm in a vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by 18 Pa.C.S. 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    And yall say PA. is the best Firearm freindly stateFelony for having a loaded firearm in veical
    H/D
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    And yall say PA. is the best Firearm freindly stateFelony for having a loaded firearm in veical
    H/D
    I've never said PA is the best firearm friendly state. It's certainly one of the best, when it comes to firearms carry.

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