Another take on kseo7s' Airsoft story, "What would you have done?"

This is a discussion on Another take on kseo7s' Airsoft story, "What would you have done?" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This has had me thinking before, as more stories come in. But there is a chilling new angle I hadn't thought of till now. Think ...

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Thread: Another take on kseo7s' Airsoft story, "What would you have done?"

  1. #1
    Member Array Agencyman's Avatar
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    Another take on kseo7s' Airsoft story, "What would you have done?"

    This has had me thinking before, as more stories come in.

    But there is a chilling new angle I hadn't thought of till now.

    Think of the scenarios that could come out of the converse. My tool box has at least two different shades of red/orange electrical tape, I'll bet one is close to the Airsoft nose paint.

    What if some bangers decide to tape a real Glock 17? It could throw some real monkey wrenches into the OODA process. Might cause a GG to let his guard down.

    Edited to add: The deception would be especially troublesome if the BG was no longer pointing it anywhere, acting as if it were a toy.

    Moral. These encounters must always be treated as if the gun were real, and the person pointing one your way is a mystery that you cannot guess about. That perp. would have to face the consequences. If he points it at a LEO or weapon permit holder, there is a good chance his career stops right there permanently.

    That civil suit possibility is awful to think about, but better than being 90 degrees from everywhere.

    Chew on THAT for a while.

    Ya'll watch your 6 and 1-5; 7-12.
    B.
    Last edited by Agencyman; June 8th, 2006 at 09:49 AM.
    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.-- Yoda
    G4W is now, be "Vigilant Always" - Bruce, (vet)USASA, NRA, IDPA, USPSA, IHMSA, & USCCA!

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agencyman
    Moral. These encounters must always be treated as if the gun were real, and the person pointing one your way is a mystery that you cannot guess about. That perp. would have to face the consequences. If he points it at a LEO or weapon permit holder, there is a good chance his career stops right there permanently.

    B.
    When someone points a gun in my direction it is not time to run through the possabilities of what kind of gun it is. It is time to eliminate the threat. Grandkids with known toys are the only ones who get a pass on this.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array WJP9's Avatar
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    I think an airsoft gun in public, especially pointed at L.E., is deserving of the POSSIBILITY of lethal force. Hell---look at some of the colored polymer on the market....OD Green, Bright Blue, dessert Tan....we've all seen them. When staring down the barrel of a gun pointed in your direction, who's to say what is real and whats not.

    Just a note here....by 'Public' I mean in the in a store, in a city, on the street, etc. Not people playing airsoft in there backyards.
    Quick story:

    My two younger brothers about five years back were playing with airsoft guns in the back yard. They live in a residential neighborhood, were laughing, shooting each other and retreating, etc....all while staying within the confines of their own yard. One of the neighbors kids saw them and ran inside telling his mother that the neighbors were shooting each other with guns. Mind you this house is 50ft away and nothing that even sounds like real gunfire was heard. Sure enough the fool called the police. The police came in two cars, took cover, and pointed their guns at my brothers ordering the guns be dropped. Upon inspection of the weapons they apologized, told my siblings to be careful and that the guns were "cool", and then told off the neighbor making sure to get their point across that he overreacted.
    -Bill

    "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Listen up folks -Even if it's CLEARLY an AIRSOFT....

    Quote Originally Posted by Agencyman
    This has had me thinking before, as more stories come in.

    But there is a chilling new angle I hadn't thought of till now.

    Think of the scenarios that could come out of the converse. My tool box has at least two different shades of red/orange electrical tape, I'll bet one is close to the Airsoft nose paint.

    What if some bangers decide to tape a real Glock 17? It could throw some real monkey wrenches into the OODA process. Might cause a GG to let his guard down.

    Edited to add: The deception would be especially troublesome if the BG was no longer pointing it anywhere, acting as if it were a toy.

    Moral. These encounters must always be treated as if the gun were real, and the person pointing one your way is a mystery that you cannot guess about. That perp. would have to face the consequences. If he points it at a LEO or weapon permit holder, there is a good chance his career stops right there permanently.

    That civil suit possibility is awful to think about, but better than being 90 degrees from everywhere.

    Chew on THAT for a while.

    Ya'll watch your 6 and 1-5; 7-12.
    B.
    It doesn't matter. Even if you are faced with a similar situation and you KNOW for SURE that it's an Airsoft you're dealing with you still MUST treat them as a credible threat just like everyone else. I PERSONALLY have seen someone shot with a bb gun in the abdomen (shirt on). The pellet penetrated his abdomen, went through a few organs while ricocheting around, and eventually lodged in his spine. Don't make the mistake of thinking an Airsoft gun isn't dangerous.

  6. #5
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    I've never looked on the packaging for airsoft type stuff - but strikes me there should be bold lettering stating a warning, that any attempt to ''play'' with such things in public could be mistaken for a lethal threat.

    Play in the back yard is way different from cowboys and indians in a busy parking lot. If I see any gun shape pointing at me in unknown hands and circumstances it has to be regarded as a serious threat.

    The only time I could conceive of taking the luxury of time to analyze a color on a muzzle, would be with hard cover immediately accessible - and so a small amount of time to assess and be drawn at ready.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova
    It doesn't matter. Even if you are faced with a similar situation and you KNOW for SURE that it's an Airsoft you're dealing with you still MUST treat them as a credible threat just like everyone else. I PERSONALLY have seen someone shot with a bb gun in the abdomen (shirt on). The pellet penetrated his abdomen, went through a few organs while ricocheting around, and eventually lodged in his spine. Don't make the mistake of thinking an Airsoft gun isn't dangerous.
    You should not imply that the "bb gun" you saw someone shot with was an Airsoft gun -- the Airsoft guns fire these little yellow plasic balls that travel at low speed, and these are dangerous only to the eye. They cannot penetrate the skin. The issue with Airsoft guns is that they look very real.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Point taken (assumptions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom Doc
    You should not imply that the "bb gun" you saw someone shot with was an Airsoft gun -- the Airsoft guns fire these little yellow plasic balls that travel at low speed, and these are dangerous only to the eye. They cannot penetrate the skin. The issue with Airsoft guns is that they look very real.
    It appears you are correct and I apologize for helping to add to misinformation. It was a BB gun not an airsoft specific gun. Although it still begs to remember the same thing does still apply with standard BB guns. Either way - a gun is a gun. If it get's pointed at me you had better be bullet proof.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    I've never looked on the packaging for airsoft type stuff - but strikes me there should be bold lettering stating a warning, that any attempt to ''play'' with such things in public could be mistaken for a lethal threat.
    I've owned several Airsofts over the last few years, starting with used ones and finally getting my own NIB. All of the packages had a warning against using or even carrying the weapons in public, and that was further backed up by the instruction manual. I know, I know, it's a violation of the Code of Manliness to read an instruction manual, but I couldn't help it. The little pictures were just so stupid looking, I had to find out what the message was.
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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  10. #9
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    Thx Antimedic - well looks like warnings are there which is good, but judging by the sometimes careless use of them, maybe an addition of a statement such as ''Inappropriate use in public places may get you shot''!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  11. #10
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    Many years ago, when the game "killer" was codified with written rules, published by Steve Jackson games, there was a caveat about dart pistols and squirt pistols to the effect of "be responsible about when and where you play. Alarming people who carry real guns may be hazardous to your health, liberty or both".

    It was good advice then, and it's better advice now.

    Matt

  12. #11
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    Check Out This Brilliant Example

    Of the "mindset" of your below average common ******* "out there" concerning "toy" guns.

    (found on the web)

    "O.K. Knuckle Headz , Let K.O. Teach you some common sense here. hhmm hhmm

    First of all If you are a SWAT Member and you shoot a Kid , because the gun looked real .
    You are a coward. Think about it . YOU HAVE BULLLET PROOF ARMOR , BULLET PROOF FACE ARMOR AT TIMES !!
    Say the Gun was real , From a tactical standpoint - The kid probably had no shot .
    There are proper procedure to handling a situation like this .

    2nd- Even my Grandmother could spot a fake gun , I swear !!!!
    Red tipped or not . It is just common sense .
    That is the difference between the first situation and the one with the three kids .
    Did that SWAT member get drug tested immediately after , I hope so .
    ADVICE to SWAT OFFICER WHO SHOT KID ----
    You better say that your finger slipped , cause you cannot actually tell me that you felt the kid was a threat . Real Gun or Not."

  13. #12
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    No idea where you found that drivel QK - but, oh my - dufus brigade for sure.

    Not in touch with reality at all.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  14. #13
    Member Array ENSANE1970's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=QKShooter]Of the "mindset" of your below average common ******* "out there" concerning "toy" guns.

    (found on the web)

    Say the Gun was real , From a tactical standpoint - The kid probably had no shot .
    There are proper procedure to handling a situation like this.


    The kid "probably", had no shot? And as for proper procedure, for handling, situation like that, put the punk down. There are plenty of gangbangers in this country, who are 13 or 14 yrs old, who have been, brainwashed and will put a LEO, or you all and I down as a gold star on their gang career. As a matter of fact, I viewed a special on gang's awhile back and alot of gangs, in order to be, inducted into, their scumbag order, the new member had to kill someone at random. The way I look at it, maybe I'm wrong, If some punk points, a gun at me that looks real, he's gonna get shot with a real gun. As for the kid "probably" had no shot, "probably", won't get you home to your family, alive. If someone, is stupid enough, to wave around a fake gun in public, that looks real, let them pay the price.
    If you want a battle of the wit's, please come armed.

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  15. #14
    Ex Member Array ClubATV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agencyman
    This has had me thinking before, as more stories come in.

    But there is a chilling new angle I hadn't thought of till now.

    Think of the scenarios that could come out of the converse. My tool box has at least two different shades of red/orange electrical tape, I'll bet one is close to the Airsoft nose paint.

    What if some bangers decide to tape a real Glock 17? It could throw some real monkey wrenches into the OODA process. Might cause a GG to let his guard down.

    Edited to add: The deception would be especially troublesome if the BG was no longer pointing it anywhere, acting as if it were a toy.

    Moral. These encounters must always be treated as if the gun were real, and the person pointing one your way is a mystery that you cannot guess about. That perp. would have to face the consequences. If he points it at a LEO or weapon permit holder, there is a good chance his career stops right there permanently.

    That civil suit possibility is awful to think about, but better than being 90 degrees from everywhere.

    Chew on THAT for a while.

    Ya'll watch your 6 and 1-5; 7-12.
    B.
    I just got a gun collar last week. The perp had a Glock 17 with the slide once painted blaze orange then removed the paint. I could tell it was painted because there was residue of the paint on the inside of the slide and in the corners next to the sights.
    NYPD just sent down orders basically stating we are authorized to shoot anyone points a gun atus with orange or red painted barrels.
    Let's say this kid did point his Glock at me, should I have holstered up because of some paint?

    BTW, got the gun collar trying to give the guy a C-summons for ridding his bike on the side walk. He tried to run, was tackled, cuffed and S.I.L.A. gun comes out from the waist.

    Most important thing is to sign out at the end of tour.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    ClubATV:
    Seems to me you've got someone in Admin. that actually has their head on straight, glad to hear it.

    I keep thinking about the tunnel vision effect. If someone points a gun at one of us, real or toy, I'd imagine the first thought would naturally be "GUN!" and not some rational, thought through process involving detail descriptions of the weapon in question. Sure the liberal, bleeding heart media would focus on "poor, misunderstood (insert street monicker), he/she was an innocent victim" but the fact is, if you try to make people believe you're armed with a lethal weapon, be prepared for the consequences of your success!
    Jack

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