UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe)

This is a discussion on UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; HotGuns is right let them fix it and get a copy and be done with it....

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Thread: UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe)

  1. #16
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    HotGuns is right let them fix it and get a copy and be done with it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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  3. #17
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    Unless I skipped something everything on there was charged with or identified with where a warrant was issued. Neither of which applies here.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #18
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    ...HotGuns is absolutley correct.

    All I have to say about the "report" is that is what you get when a law enforcement agency begins to take reports for insurance companies.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #19
    Member Array twocan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martial Archer View Post
    Exactly! My continued consideration of contacting an attorney is motivated soley by my desire to make sure this doesn't bite me on the rear in the future. I do not intend to take punitive action (formal complaint or other) against the deputy or the sheriff's office UNLESS they do not do as promised. A few hundred dollars out of pocket seems a small price to pay for the peace of mind.
    Archer:

    This is a very good place to be.

    You want all of the reports corrected (which means original, with "suspect" deleted) not just amended because someone else will see the word suspect and infer all sorts of incorrect assumptions.

    You want the second-in-command to be glad that he went to bat for you, not want to get you next time because you rained a lot of shot down on him.

    Once you have a copy of the corrected report in your hands and assurances that all references to "suspect" deleted, you might consider writing a thankyou letter to the Chief detailing all of the actions that the 2nd in command took on your behalf. This way, even if you don't get assurances in writing, you have documented what they said they were doing to correct the Deputy's errors.

    Capt. Art

  6. #20
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    One needs to pay attention to cases like this. The family calls our 2-yr-old granddaughter "crash test dummy" for her habit of throwing herself at anyone and anything. She's a typical 2-yr-old, always some bump, bruise, or scrapped knee. During a visit to the doc recently she noticed a brusie on the GD's leg. Reported it to CPS and an agent and detectives showed up at the door. Short story version, all turned out well; closed as "unfounded." Could have been big trouble if handled by the wrong agent, etc.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    One needs to pay attention to cases like this. The family calls our 2-yr-old granddaughter "crash test dummy" for her habit of throwing herself at anyone and anything. She's a typical 2-yr-old, always some bump, bruise, or scrapped knee. During a visit to the doc recently she noticed a brusie on the GD's leg. Reported it to CPS and an agent and detectives showed up at the door. Short story version, all turned out well; closed as "unfounded." Could have been big trouble if handled by the wrong agent, etc.
    Not to sidetrack this thread, but MY kids' pediatrician was concerned when kids that age didn't have bruises on their legs. He said no bruising was a sign of momma being over-protective!
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  8. #22
    Member Array Martial Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Some observations...

    First of all, you admitted that it was a result of the actions of your company that caused the broken window. Since you are the owner, you are the point of contact, or the RP (responsible person) as we call it.

    While I personally would have written RP on the report rather than "suspect", depending on the dept. it's probably just a term that they use on a report. The officer didn't witness the event, and is going off of info that you told them, that is why they use "suspect".

    As for the "felony" part of it, it is not in the same class as a felony. Its is just listed as property damage and the amount is simply a base for insurance purposes. In fact, if we aren't sure, we don't even put an amount, we let the Insurance Adjusters that do that for a living take care of it.

    If you think about it, everytime someone got in a car wreck, the amount property damage will usually put it in the same definition as a felony, yet it is just listed as a accident,unless someone is DWI or something like that.

    To think of it as a "felony" is not correct.

    As for this part:


    Let me tell you what will happen. Officer Friendly will be called up and told to amend his report...probably at the end of his shift, because someone had a gripe with it. He'll get on the computer, look it up, change the few words that the person found offensive and be done with it in about 5 minutes and thats it. Nothing more, nothing less unless something that he did was not within Dept. guidelines.



    Yep. He considered you a disgruntled citizen and he will do whatever it takes to make you feel good. He'll tell you exactly what he thinks you want to hear just to get you out of there.



    That I seriously doubt. Maybe, his shift Sergeant told him to handle it. I doubt that much more than that was even mentioned about it.



    That is your choice. I think it'd be a waste of money though, escpecially since they were going to fix it anyway.




    Negative. NCIC only has info where a person was found quilty of a crime. They do not file any of the millions of reports that each agency around the country files. It would bog down the system. NCIC dosent care about property damage reports unless a person involved was found guilty of a felony. While it is true that the report was filed on a computer, it never leaves the office unless there is a specific reason for it.



    To follow up, just ask for a copy of the report. They may even charge you a few bucks for it. Read it and if you agree with it, all is good.

    If not, you'll have to take it up with the Shift Commander or the CLEO. I'll bet you wont have to pay a cent to get it done.
    HotGuns,

    Just like I would not have taken issue with the deputy in the first place had he informed me of his intent to disarm me, I would have taken no issue with the report had I been refered to as the RP or "Other" as was sugested by the deputy's CO. The term suspect may very well just be a term they use on a report but it very well could have cause problems for me later on. Say what you will, but the fact remains that had I not addressed this issue, my name would have forever been on record as the suspect in this case. Neither you nor I know the potential negative impact/consequences that may have been.

    Regarding the references to a felony, those words came from the deputy's command staff, not me. IANAL. They may not be legally correct. Never-the-less, I do not want my name & the words felony and suspect used together in the same sentence. If you do not understand that, sorry!

    Regarding being told what I wanted to hear "just to get you out of there"...just doesn't instill much faith and confidence that an honest man will be treated fairly and with respect by you boys.

    Regarding NCIC, I understand and agree that I would not have been in that database. Of concern however was the possibility of having a background check done for the sake of employment (as a example). My name would have come up as the suspect if someone had dug deep enough. Again, this was confirmed by the deputy's CO.

    For the record, there is more to this story than I related in my OP. For the sake of brevity and in hopes of keeping the thread on topic, I related only the facts pertinient to CCW as it seemed the appropriate thing to do on this forum. If you care to know the particulars of how the deputy violated policy/procedure & was just down-right unprofessional, I'll galdly inform you via PM.
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  9. #23
    Member Array Martial Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twocan View Post
    Archer:

    This is a very good place to be.

    You want all of the reports corrected (which means original, with "suspect" deleted) not just amended because someone else will see the word suspect and infer all sorts of incorrect assumptions.

    You want the second-in-command to be glad that he went to bat for you, not want to get you next time because you rained a lot of shot down on him.

    Once you have a copy of the corrected report in your hands and assurances that all references to "suspect" deleted, you might consider writing a thankyou letter to the Chief detailing all of the actions that the 2nd in command took on your behalf. This way, even if you don't get assurances in writing, you have documented what they said they were doing to correct the Deputy's errors.

    Capt. Art
    I have every intent of writing him thank you letter once I have a certified copy of the original report with the appropriate changes in my possession.
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  10. #24
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    IIRC your business has had several incidents like this. I wonder what the other reports say. Maybe you are a repeat offender!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martial Archer View Post
    After a 30 minute conversation with this member of the command staff, I was left with "The report is what it is. We have to call you something. You're the suspect". Unacceptable!
    What about "witness"?

  12. #26
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    HotGuns is absolutely correct in the information and advice he has given.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  13. #27
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    I hope they take care of the report for you, and you can get this behind you, and move on without paying legal fees.

    Putting myself in your shoes, I wouldn't care to be referred to as the "suspect" either, though technically you probably are a suspect in breaking the window. Don't forget you are actually a business owner and stepped up to the plate to correct your employees misfortune.

    There are better word choices than "suspect" here, though that might be part of the deputies requirements. You made your point with them.

    I bet you are aggravated over the entire situation, and the report re-opened it further. Sleep on it a while, let some time pass, by then you'll make the best decision.

    Good luck
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  14. #28
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    Now a nicely written letter to that Command Staff who helped you is in order!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  15. #29
    Member Array Martial Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    IIRC your business has had several incidents like this. I wonder what the other reports say. Maybe you are a repeat offender!


    Quote Originally Posted by NIS350ZTT View Post
    What about "witness"?
    Not accurate. I wasn't in the immediate area; didn't see a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    HotGuns is absolutely correct in the information and advice he has given.
    Technically correct perhaps, just not right. Check this link regarding SC property damage laws:

    South Carolina Malicious Injury Laws - SC Property Damage Penalties

    Yes, I realize that the broken window was not malicious. I will say again that it was the deputys's CO who first mentioned the possibility (however remote) of this somehow being interpreted as a potential felony.

    Repeat after me:

    "Hey Mr. Prospective Employer, look at this. It says that Mr. Old School, who applied for the postion as head widget inspector, was the suspect in a property damage case where the damage was $1000. Under the right circunstances, that could have been a felony. Do we want to keep his application?"

    Probable? Maybe not. Possible? With utmost certainty!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Now a nicely written letter to that Command Staff who helped you is in order!
    It shall be done...as soon as I get that amended report.
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