UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe)

UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe)

This is a discussion on UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Some of you will recall my recent thread regarding my third and somewhat negative LEO encounter. The short story: I own a landscaping business. An ...

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Thread: UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe)

  1. #1
    Member Array Martial Archer's Avatar
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    UPDATE - 3rd LEO Encounter - Bad to Worse to Better (maybe)

    Some of you will recall my recent thread regarding my third and somewhat negative LEO encounter. The short story: I own a landscaping business. An employee hit a rock with a weed-eater; rock breaks storefront window. Silent alarm summons LEO; LEO summons me. I am unnecessarily disarmed & put in harms way; LEO makes tactical errors potentially putting himself in harms way and generally treats me poorly. (IMO) Here's the link to the OP:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...day-right.html

    Well, Thursday I went to the Sheriff's Office to pick up a copy of the incident report so that I would have it on file if needed for insurance etc. Upon reading the report, I was nothing short of shocked to discover that I was listed as the SUSPECT in a property damage case! Per the report, the "approximate value" of the damaged property made this incident a potential FELONY I don't believe that I need to elaborate on the potential negative consequences/impact on me, my family, my business, my CWP etc., etc., etc.

    After calming down, thinking through the situation and deciding on a course of action, I returned to the Sheriff's Office to file a formal complaint against the report and the deputy that wrote it. In short, I was given a bit of a run-around and never had the opportunity to speak with anyone in command. I returned home and put "Plan B" into effect.

    Starting at the top, I began calling every "Contact Us" number I could find for the SO. Leaving a to-the-point voicemail on every non-answer, it took 4 attempts to reach a human. After a 30 minute conversation with this member of the command staff, I was left with "The report is what it is. We have to call you something. You're the suspect". Unacceptable!

    After some thinking, pondering & brooding, I decided my only course of action was indeed to file a written complaint and contact an attorney. Then, the phone rang.

    The second in command got my voicemail and was returning the call. I related the entire incident in consumate detail. I received the response I was looking for, "Mr. ________, we will amend the report and have a discussion with the deputy regarding his conduct, professionalism and safety" and "I will personally follow up with this matter to see that it is taken care of." In other words:

    Not 30 minutes later, I got another phone call. It was the officer I had first spoken with, back-pedaling as fast as he could about the report. I was assured that he will personally see to the report being re-written CORRECTLY and that it will be available by mid-week next week. GOOD!

    Since fecal material rolls down hill, I am pretty sure that there was some & a little farther down the chain of command.

    So, some serious pucker factor in a rediculous situation that hopefully has been resolved.

    I am still considering consulting an attorney...
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  2. #2
    Member Array Mr Sir's Avatar
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    The squeaky wheel gets the grease, eh?
    I'd probably let it go if they amend the original report.

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    Good for you for following up on the situation.

    Can you imagine the potential repercussions if this was discovered years down the road, with no way to amend it? If this bad report was included along with some other future negative accusations, it could paint you as a probable criminal even though no proof was documented.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I'd follow up on what they said they would do, and let it go. I'm not sure what else they can/will do for you.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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    Ex Member Array HoustonRaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martial Archer View Post
    I am still considering consulting an attorney...
    Please PLEASE DO!

    The written report is not the only version of the report. More than likely, that report was entered into a computer system, possible even NCIC.

    When background checks are done these days, they rely on the computer uploaded versions of the report and unless that's changed, you will be the suspect in proverbial perpetuity.

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    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Please PLEASE DO!

    The written report is not the only version of the report. More than likely, that report was entered into a computer system, possible even NCIC.

    When background checks are done these days, they rely on the computer uploaded versions of the report and unless that's changed, you will be the suspect in proverbial perpetuity.

    But when a report is amended they have to file a new report then add the amendment into the computer system, like say if a detective is summoned for follow up to investigate a case he will file an addendum to the original with his notes and upload it to the central data base.
    But DO ask for a copy of the amended report! Take no ones word!
    One more step and it's on!

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array HoustonRaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dripster View Post
    But when a report is amended they have to file a new report then add the amendment into the computer system, like say if a detective is summoned for follow up to investigate a case he will file an addendum to the original with his notes and upload it to the central data base.
    But DO ask for a copy of the amended report! Take no ones word!
    I was in LE for 15 years. That's assuming a lot from the fine folks in the records division. They are hard working people but very overwhelmed.

    Sounds to me that the OP is concerned about his background. I'd want to be 100% sure.

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    For something like this, I'd let an attorney do my talking. I think I'd be very concerned about what happens in the future...a year from now...hard to change anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    For something like this, I'd let an attorney do my talking. I think I'd be very concerned about what happens in the future...a year from now...hard to change anything.
    x2 if for no other reason at the end you'll be out a few hundred with assurance that the report has been correctly amended. Peace of mind is worth $500. It'll be almost impossible to change 5 years down the road.
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    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    You did great, Martial Archer: If they amend that report, then I would not retain an attorney (unless you like $200/hour legal fees!!).

    -Bill

  11. #11
    Member Array Martial Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Sounds to me that the OP is concerned about his background. I'd want to be 100% sure.
    Exactly! My continued consideration of contacting an attorney is motivated soley by my desire to make sure this doesn't bite me on the rear in the future. I do not intend to take punitive action (formal complaint or other) against the deputy or the sheriff's office UNLESS they do not do as promised. A few hundred dollars out of pocket seems a small price to pay for the peace of mind.
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    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Suggestion...my wife works in the courthouse here and says to follow-up, follow up and then follow up some more. Make sure you get a corrected copy of a computer generated report and maybe even a notarized copy. Get the name and badge number of the officer that is second in command if it doesn't appear on the report. Good luck and stay on this until you are satisfied.
    Luis

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  13. #13
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    Some observations...

    First of all, you admitted that it was a result of the actions of your company that caused the broken window. Since you are the owner, you are the point of contact, or the RP (responsible person) as we call it.

    While I personally would have written RP on the report rather than "suspect", depending on the dept. it's probably just a term that they use on a report. The officer didn't witness the event, and is going off of info that you told them, that is why they use "suspect".

    As for the "felony" part of it, it is not in the same class as a felony. Its is just listed as property damage and the amount is simply a base for insurance purposes. In fact, if we aren't sure, we don't even put an amount, we let the Insurance Adjusters that do that for a living take care of it.

    If you think about it, everytime someone got in a car wreck, the amount property damage will usually put it in the same definition as a felony, yet it is just listed as a accident,unless someone is DWI or something like that.

    To think of it as a "felony" is not correct.

    As for this part:
    "Mr. ________, we will amend the report and have a discussion with the deputy regarding his conduct, professionalism and safety" and "I will personally follow up with this matter to see that it is taken care of."
    Let me tell you what will happen. Officer Friendly will be called up and told to amend his report...probably at the end of his shift, because someone had a gripe with it. He'll get on the computer, look it up, change the few words that the person found offensive and be done with it in about 5 minutes and thats it. Nothing more, nothing less unless something that he did was not within Dept. guidelines.

    I was assured that he will personally see to the report being re-written CORRECTLY and that it will be available by mid-week next week. GOOD!
    Yep. He considered you a disgruntled citizen and he will do whatever it takes to make you feel good. He'll tell you exactly what he thinks you want to hear just to get you out of there.

    Since fecal material rolls down hill, I am pretty sure that there was some & a little farther down the chain of command
    That I seriously doubt. Maybe, his shift Sergeant told him to handle it. I doubt that much more than that was even mentioned about it.

    I am still considering consulting an attorney...
    That is your choice. I think it'd be a waste of money though, escpecially since they were going to fix it anyway.


    More than likely, that report was entered into a computer system, possible even NCIC.
    Negative. NCIC only has info where a person was found quilty of a crime. They do not file any of the millions of reports that each agency around the country files. It would bog down the system. NCIC dosent care about property damage reports unless a person involved was found guilty of a felony. While it is true that the report was filed on a computer, it never leaves the office unless there is a specific reason for it.

    I do not intend to take punitive action (formal complaint or other) against the deputy or the sheriff's office UNLESS they do not do as promised. A few hundred dollars out of pocket seems a small price to pay for the peace of mind.
    To follow up, just ask for a copy of the report. They may even charge you a few bucks for it. Read it and if you agree with it, all is good.

    If not, you'll have to take it up with the Shift Commander or the CLEO. I'll bet you wont have to pay a cent to get it done.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #14
    Ex Member Array HoustonRaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Negative. NCIC only has info where a person was found quilty of a crime. They do not file any of the millions of reports that each agency around the country files. It would bog down the system. NCIC dosent care about property damage reports unless a person involved was found guilty of a felony. While it is true that the report was filed on a computer, it never leaves the office unless there is a specific reason for it
    That may be your agencies criteria for upload into NCIC, but NCIC holds far more than mere convictions. Check out the list here:

    National Crime Information Center (NCIC) - FBI Information Systems

  15. #15
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    NCIC does not have the information from a property damage report entered into it unless someone has been arrested or charged.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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