What "Shall Issue" state is the most strict? - Page 4

What "Shall Issue" state is the most strict?

This is a discussion on What "Shall Issue" state is the most strict? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Tubby45 Wow you're panties are in a wad, aren't they? You should reread the question: Looks to me like it says "carry" ...

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Thread: What "Shall Issue" state is the most strict?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Wow you're panties are in a wad, aren't they?

    You should reread the question:

    Looks to me like it says "carry" not "concealed carry only".


    FL's no concealed carry places 14 total. TX no concealed carry places 13 total. MI no concealed carry places 10.

    Michigan also has open carry. Now before you start whining again about "oh that isn't fair this is about concealed" here is one thing that having a MI CPL will allow. See those "no concealed carry places" in the MI section of the law (google it)? Well, if you have a CPL you can open carry in every single venue listed, legally. Yes, that's right, if you have a CPL in MI, you can carry anywhere you want so long as you conceal or open carry as the law pertains. So as you see, with a Michigan CPL, there are essentially no places you can't carry a firearm. You just have to open carry in some. Also with the open carry being legal, printing or unintentional showing of a pistol is not against the law, since open carry is legal. In TX or FL, depending on officer discretion, you might be arrested for open carry.

    Your rebuttal, sir....
    Hey Tub,
    First you need to apologize to cmdrdredd. No need for your tough guy wise ASP comments.

    Second, Michigan is not exactly Open Carry. Read Section 234E-Brandish. You don't need to interpret what the word means. It has been handed down by the MI AG as formal opinion #7101.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Hey Tub,
    First you need to apologize to cmdrdredd. No need for your tough guy wise ASP comments.
    I don't apologize for things I didn't do wrong. You are in no position nor authority to tell me what I need to do. He called me out, I gave facts. If he didn't like the manner in which cold hard facts are delivered, he (and others) can add me to their ignore list, as others have done in the past.

    Second, Michigan is not exactly Open Carry. Read Section 234E-Brandish. You don't need to interpret what the word means. It has been handed down by the MI AG as formal opinion #7101.
    Yes, Michigan is exactly open carry. There is no law preventing open carry. There is full state pre-emption of carrying a firearm which disallows local jurisdiction of regulating the manner in which firearms are carried. I'm well aware "brandishing" means "to wave of display in a threatening manner". This has always been MI common law, and the AG's opinion solidified it, with prejudice. In MI, the AG's official written opinion is how the law is enforced and has the legal weight of a State Supreme Court case. I'm very well informed of the firearm and carry laws in Michigan, thanks.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  3. #48
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    I am almost in agreement with [B]Pro2A[B] I have heard it is against the law to even have your firearm in your vehicle on postal property let alone carrying inside a postal facility. I have even started parking across the street when going to the post office to avoid any violations as I do value my CCW license.

  4. #49
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    TX no concealed carry places 13 total
    I only get 10 for TX. What else are you counting?

    Courthouse
    51% establishments (bars)
    school buildings
    school grounds if school sponsored activity is taking place
    secure area of airport
    secure area of police station
    prison
    within 1000' of prison when execution is taking place
    high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event
    any non-government owned/leased property that is properly posted

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Going by the handgunlaw.us.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  6. #51
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    They show the same number that I got.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    That has nothing to do with carry though. The idea behind this thread was about where you can and can't carry in a shall issue state.
    Actually, it has quite a bit to do with carry in PA.

    There are documented cases of cops hassling people because their firearms were not in the "registry that's not a registry". I believe people's firearms have even been illegally confiscated for this reason.

    That CAN'T happen in Ohio. There are plenty of other opportunities for abuse, but not THAT one.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    I don't know which states fit this, but I'd have to say the most restrictive shall issue states would be ones that have these things on their books.

    No OC
    Gun buster signs that you have to obey
    Can't keep a gun in your car at work
    Duty to retreat
    Only carry the gun(s) listed on permit
    No carry in school zones
    No carry on college campus
    No carry in parks
    No carry in city bldg.
    No carry in bars/restaurants that serve alcohol

    EDIT: ADDITIONS

    No or restricted Castle Doctrine
    Restrictions on other weapons; Knives, impact weapons, tasers etc.
    No State preemption
    Well in defense of Michigan;
    We are a shall issue, but do require 8 hours of training, shoot a quailifying score.

    We allow open carry.

    Gun buster signs have to be obeyed but it's only a civil misdmeanor.

    State law does not prevent keeping gun in car. It's up to company policy if it's their parking lot.

    We do not have duty to retreat.

    No limit on restrictions/list of approved guns. It doesn't even have to belong to you, as long as you legally posess it. (ok to borrow a friends gun)

    According to some, OK to Open Carry in school zones with CPL. I don't really know if this would hold up in court and am not about to test the theory.

    College campuses are OK, but not classrooms or dorm rooms. Don't ask me how that works, but thats the law.

    Parks are OK.

    City buildings are OK provided they are not court buildings.

    Resturants are OK, using the 50% rule. Can't carry in a Bar that's main income is from alcohol. Also can't drink while carrying. (.02% BAC, which is less than 1 beer for most people)

    We have a good castle doctrine.

    Few state restrictions on knives, however cities are allowed to make their own knife laws. No state preemption for knives.

    We do have state preemption for Concealed Carry laws.

    As far as list of no carry places, I believe the number is 7 or 8. (Hospitals, schools, churches unless you have pastors permission, bars, theaters over 2500 seats, sports arena's, and casinos, college dorms and classrooms. As has been mentioned there is opinion out there that open carry in these places is allowed with a CPL, but I know of no cases where it has been tested.

  9. #54
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    TedBeau:

    That is not bad, but could still use some work.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  10. #55
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    As has been mentioned there is opinion out there that open carry in these places is allowed with a CPL, but I know of no cases where it has been tested.
    The AG's office, state police legal liaison, and the state supreme court have all opined that having a CPL while openly carrying allows one to open carry a pistol in all of MI's "pistol free zones" so long as it remains open and not concealed. This is exactly in concurrent with current MI statutes.

    I'm on lunch break right now but I get home about midnight and will copy/paste the relevant statues when I get back. Later.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dfxMM View Post
    I only get 10 for TX. What else are you counting?

    Courthouse
    51% establishments (bars)
    school buildings <--- Federal Applies to ALL states
    school grounds if school sponsored activity is taking place
    secure area of airport <--- Federal Applies to ALL states
    secure area of police station
    prison <--- Federal Applies to ALL states
    within 1000' of prison when execution is taking place
    high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event
    any non-government owned/leased property that is properly posted
    I only count 7. At least three of the ones you posted are federal regulations.

  12. #57
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    JJVP;

    Your comment that no carry in schools is a Federal law, and applies to all states is absolutely incorrect. Statements like this confuse others and spread mis-information. Please try to verify info before you pass it along.

    Thanks, Sigmanluke
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  13. #58
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    " TX no concealed carry places 13 total."

    Please list them.

    "Yes, that's right, if you have a CPL in MI, you can carry anywhere you want so long as you conceal or open carry as the law pertains. So as you see, with a Michigan CPL, there are essentially no places you can't carry a firearm. You just have to open carry in some."

    So, you can carry into a school and the secure area of an airport?

    " Also with the open carry being legal, printing or unintentional showing of a pistol is not against the law, since open carry is legal. In TX or FL, depending on officer discretion, you might be arrested for open carry.""

    There is no penalty for printing in TX. You can be arrested for anything, in any state. Being prosecuted and convicted is another story.

  14. #59
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    JJVP:
    So, you can carry into a school and the secure area of an airport?
    Any permit holder can carry into any public school in Utah.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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    To some of the above posters...

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