Would you try to do something? - Page 2

Would you try to do something?

This is a discussion on Would you try to do something? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While it may seem obvious, I will state it anyway. Once you commit, you are "all in" and so is whatever family is with you. ...

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Thread: Would you try to do something?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While it may seem obvious, I will state it anyway. Once you commit, you are "all in" and so is whatever family is with you. Be committed to also finish it.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    And it does play out that way often. [tommy]

    First guy gets stung and everybody else bones out, while possibly popping off un-aimed cover fire in the opposite direction as they attempt to flee.
    For average street thugs that's a fairly decent bet. Not o much though for hardened professionals.

    A roll of the dice.

    - Janq

    "Two men enter, one man leaves." - Dr. Dealgood, Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    There's no way I'm going to be locked in a walk-in to wait for some POS to come back and start killing people. You NEVER let them take you from the room, put you in the car, lock you up, or allow yourself to be taken anywhere alone. If it is my day to die, I'm doing it on my terms, I'm not letting some mope take my life without a fight.


    Might I suggest the "El Presidente" drill as practice for such a scenario - start with 3 targets about a yard apart, 6rds in your gun and a 6rd reload, from the 10yd line draw and fire 2rds center mass of each target working from left to right then reload and repeat working from right to left.
    You can apply this drill to this scenario by starting with the closest POS and working away from you.
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  4. #19
    Member Array Agent47's Avatar
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    This is where I wish I had a suppressor...? Or not...
    Medical College of Virginia School of Medicine Class of 2013

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47 View Post
    This is where I wish I had a suppressor...? Or not...
    You and everyone has one on their person at all times.

    Two hands...


    Silent, swift, immediate...And not dependent on gender or even to within extremes physical strength.

    Watch the video closely...These blockheads (BGs) corralled a whole mass of people at once as alone leaving one guy to work them as the cowboy while the other two (off camera) are working the place.
    Turn and contact the first guy standing there (who looks to be a buck fifty max) covering his mouth and either disable him there as he stands or drag/push him into the _freezer_ and lock it.

    Now you have a tactical advantage because the other guys they didn't hear a sound.
    It would be great if some other GG person offered to assist as well. : |

    - Janq

    P.S. - Even better is if anyone had a reasonably sharp impact weapon at hand, never mind a knife!, that thrust with _force_ direct into the threats neck...Again with hand over mouth to muffle his cry/scream.
    Hideous to think of but so is shooting a human being or being shot or raped or watching someone else suffer same, before being placed in a commercial freezer.
    It's all horrible...So one might need in the moment so as to survive to mentally disconnect and become someone or something else than who/what they normally are. : |
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #21
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    Array OldVet's Avatar
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    If someone had taken the BGs on, what are the odds that the BGs would have cut and run versus press the attack?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    [Disclaimer: This is just the scenario I came up with in my head based on the footage from the video, and what I would do if I were the BG's. I am not an expert on situational tactics or strategies! If I would actually do any of this is a great question, as I have no idea what would be actually going through my head at the time.]

    Scenario: Three BG's in a small to medium sized diner/restaurant with "hostages." One or Two BG's on crowd control, one BG escorting "hostages" to the cooler, with variable BG either on crowd control as stated or emptying cash register(s).

    The best window of opportunity would be at the moment when your table/area is selected to be moved as this would place one crowd control BG and the escort BG immediately in front of you.

    Your first target would be the BG closest to you, hopefully within ~5 feet as this shot should probably be a headshot. If you can't make a headshot at this distance, well you are S.O.L. as the next guy needs to be taken out with extreme prejudice, likely in the 3-5 round range (TAP-TAP-TAP-TAP-TAP) in center mass. This is the time to tell everyone to get under their tables. [CONTROLLED BREATHING IS CRITICAL].

    The last BG will likely be confused at this point, and will likely be coming around to check out what happened. (It is very likely that the BG will think that his people were shooting, not you). He will be either directly in front of you or behind you so you need to move appropriately in his direction, quickly but in control. The moment he presents himself is your time to act in whichever manner you see fit. I'd likely first tell him to drop his gun, unless it was already pointed in my direction. If it is pointed at me, I immediately fire at center mass until he is no longer threat.

    (I know some of you are talking about an adrenaline dump before you act, which is possible, but if you were prepared mentally and were in condition yellow beforehand, it shouldn't be a full on dump, just enough to allow you to hone your focus and concentration. Remember to breathe! Deep breaths in and out to keep you in control! You will definitely experience an adrenaline dump after your fire the first shot so "tactical" breathing becomes paramount).

    [Disclaimer: This is just the scenario I came up with in my head based on the footage from the video, and what I would do if I were the BG's. I am not an expert on situational tactics or strategies! If I would actually do any of this is a great question, as I have no idea what would be actually going through my head at the time.]
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Taking what it says..... they robbed the customers as well and one customer "was able to hide a cell phone".... which implies that they actually checked the customers.

    So, based upon that...... everyone hit the floor, because it would be "on".

    1) if they are checking people they would find the gun, and I'm not giving up the gun.
    2) every case I know of, when they put you in a cooler it is to shoot them so there are no witnesses.

    I'm afraid somewhere in there, I would be looking for an opportunity or making one.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    1) if they are checking people they would find the gun, and I'm not giving up the gun.
    Good point to bring up...

    I definitely would not want to give up a gun because the moment at which you do, based on appearance of course, (clean hair cut and shave/shadow) it's likely that they will assume you are an off-duty LEO which will be either a very good thing or a very bad thing depending on the BG.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    Usually, in too many instances, going into the cooler means an execution to get rid of the witnesses, like laying on the floor face down, depending on armed robbers to let you live, maybe on a whim. If you choose to shoot, you might save an innocent life or two, even if one of them does not include you.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    I'm going to side with Janq and others here and go with... "it depends...". With just the picture I see linked here, I see a BG with one hand "herding" people into an are and his other hand somewhere by his side. Easy target. Action beats reaction. If I'm smart and in tune with what's going on, I can get him without an issue at close range as I'm being "herded" into that area. I see no other BGs in that area according to the picture. Now it's 2 vs 1 and I'm moving to an area of advantage after taking BG1. One of them is down and the other's are probably now going "***!!!".... my advantage. If the "herding" area is into a cooler or freezer than I am probably in an area at the rear of the buisness where the BGs only access is straight down my line of fire. They have to come to me. I find my best "Stallone movie" position and play it by ear....

    Could I do it? Who the heck knows. I've never been put in that situation so I don't really know. I can only hope and train my way to being as good as I can be at any given time. One thing I absolutely will NOT do is allow myself, my family, or my friends to be slaughtered regardless of what the odds are.

    I'm going home, my family is going home, and my friends are going home today. If someone is on the unhappy end of the "Odds are.." stick, then so be it.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  12. #27
    Member Array FroMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinoons View Post
    I think I'd too go along quietly. Three on one are piss awfull odds, if everyone appears to be coming out of this none the worse for wear the smart play appears to be staying vigliant, but quiet.
    They're awesome odds if you're a US military member and the bad guys are hajis.

    But...in most situations, unless the 3 guys act like they're going to start executing people, I think it's better off to comply.

    However, when backed against a wall, sometimes fight and sometimes flight kicks in. Most people tuck tail and run...then some people, the fewer number...fight.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Taking what it says..... they robbed the customers as well and one customer "was able to hide a cell phone".... which implies that they actually checked the customers.

    So, based upon that...... everyone hit the floor, because it would be "on".

    1) if they are checking people they would find the gun, and I'm not giving up the gun.
    2) every case I know of, when they put you in a cooler it is to shoot them so there are no witnesses.

    I'm afraid somewhere in there, I would be looking for an opportunity or making one.
    Then they'd find my gun and my badge and I'd be a dead man in short order. So, like Eagleks says, "Everybody down!", because things are about to get ugly.
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    A good point this brings up is reconciling your trigger point with any window of opportunity.

    If your trigger point is putting people on the floor or searching/disarming them, all three perps may be there for that leaving little/no window of opportunity.

    If a window of opportunity appears but your trigger point has not been met, that is the time for reconciling/decision making.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    This one is tough. If I had family with me to protect, they would have to come first and I would do what I had to do to keep them safe above all. If I had no family or friends with me I would have to choose the best opportunity so as not to get into a hostage situation where the other people get herded into the cooler by one or two of the BG's and held at gunpoint or killed.

    I would try to get some kind of separation of the BG's from the other people.
    “I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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