Would you try to do something? - Page 3

Would you try to do something?

This is a discussion on Would you try to do something? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Tally XD This one is tough. If I had family with me to protect, they would have to come first and I ...

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Thread: Would you try to do something?

  1. #31
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    Question I may be dense....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    This one is tough. If I had family with me to protect, they would have to come first and I would do what I had to do to keep them safe above all. If I had no family or friends with me I would have to choose the best opportunity so as not to get into a hostage situation where the other people get herded into the cooler by one or two of the BG's and held at gunpoint or killed.

    I would try to get some kind of separation of the BG's from the other people.
    I may be dense, but are you saying that having family with you increases or decreases your willingness to be herded into a freezer?
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  2. #32
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    Like others have said, it depends as to exactly what I would do on a lot of circumstances but, one thing I know I'm not doing, is going down without a fight.
    I sincerely hope I never have to find out!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
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  3. #33
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    I have already resolved “I will die on my feet fighting, not on my knees begging” I will not be moved to a more secure kill field. If the time ever comes I hope I have the resolve to follow through.

    Wait for your best opportunity/first clear shot at the closest BG, at your shot the BGs will likely be in momentary disorientation, the unexpected LOUD shot (hopefully) will cause a short circuit in their ORDNAL (?) loop causing hesitation. Press the attack, be swift, be violent, be merciless, any hesitation will allow the opportunity for them to kill you or innocents; additional yelling and screaming on your part to add to the confusion and disorientation of the BGs.

    As has been stated by Janq and others; most street punks will cave at any opposition; look at the number of videos of armed BGs fleeing when confronted by store clerks with mops etc. You can’t count it, be prepared to shoot them all without hesitation.
    Last edited by F350; May 22nd, 2010 at 03:13 PM.

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    I'm not being herded into any dang freezer or cooler or back room, I don't give a dang what I have to fight with, a dang stick will do if that's all I have. I'll fake a heart attack to get one of them closer, I do whatever I have to get one of them close enough to do whatever I have to.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    I may be dense, but are you saying that having family with you increases or decreases your willingness to be herded into a freezer?
    Definitely decreases! I would never ever allow my family to be herded into anything by anyone.

    What I was conveying is that I would have to put my family above any concerns for putting the other victims into a hostage situation.
    “I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    I'm not being herded into any dang freezer or cooler or back room, I don't give a dang what I have to fight with, a dang stick will do if that's all I have. I'll fake a heart attack to get one of them closer, I do whatever I have to get one of them close enough to do whatever I have to.
    Good point, as a 70+ yr old man did that in a fast food restaurant (faked a heart attack) when they were herding them down a hall to a bathroom, and then shot the BG. The others were in a different area, heard shots and ran.

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy3rd View Post
    Video Shows Gunmen Locking Diners In Cooler - Central Florida News 13

    three masked gunmen robbed a Denny's restaurant. If you were carrying, would you take a chance of getting at least 1? would you just hand over your stuff and followed everyone to the cooler? I wonder if even an experienced shooter can pull that off...
    I'm not going anywhere with anyone at gunpoint. I'm sure that the six women who got shot in that Lane Bryant clothing store in Tinley Park, Illinois thought they were just going to get robbed when the murderer took them in the back room.

    When you're on your knees or face down is too late to decide to do something. If I'm going to get shot, I'd rather it be in the front in a gunfight than in the back of the head, execution style.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    You and everyone has one on their person at all times.

    Two hands...


    Silent, swift, immediate...And not dependent on gender or even to within extremes physical strength.

    Watch the video closely...These blockheads (BGs) corralled a whole mass of people at once as alone leaving one guy to work them as the cowboy while the other two (off camera) are working the place.
    Turn and contact the first guy standing there (who looks to be a buck fifty max) covering his mouth and either disable him there as he stands or drag/push him into the _freezer_ and lock it.

    Now you have a tactical advantage because the other guys they didn't hear a sound.
    It would be great if some other GG person offered to assist as well. : |

    - Janq

    P.S. - Even better is if anyone had a reasonably sharp impact weapon at hand, never mind a knife!, that thrust with _force_ direct into the threats neck...Again with hand over mouth to muffle his cry/scream.
    Hideous to think of but so is shooting a human being or being shot or raped or watching someone else suffer same, before being placed in a commercial freezer.
    It's all horrible...So one might need in the moment so as to survive to mentally disconnect and become someone or something else than who/what they normally are. : |
    Janq:

    You appear to have the best solution:

    Get them one at a time quietly.

    Well thought out.

    Capt. Art

  9. #39
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    I will not allow myself or those in my party so to speak to be moved to smaller more likely kill zone. If they begin searching people or herding them to the back Ill flip the coin so to speak. Im either OC or CC EVERYDAY. They WILL find my gun and I might be taken for Off duty LE or the like. I like the saying from the movie domino for this because it FITS. In a situation like this, if you choose to fight you just flipped the coin. Heads you live Tails you die. Its a choice only you can make at that time and at that place. YOu can only practice the situation and pray it NEVER happens. Its a chance and the odds that are stacked against you are usually never good and you have to accept one big thing - Life isnt like a good movie, the good guys dont always win and they dont always LIVE.

    Also +1 on the silent takedown choice!

    Just my take, but like I said, Ill take the flip of a coin and take the chance in this situation.
    BETTER TO BE TRIED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6
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  10. #40
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    My biggest concern in this type of situation is the BG's getting my gun. This alone would likely force me to act early as an opportunity presents itself. Waiting only makes it more likely to have to act in an even worse situation if/when it became apparent they were searching people. Again, though, lots of variables.
    NRA Life Member

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    Definitely decreases! I would never ever allow my family to be herded into anything by anyone.
    I put my desire to get home to my family right up there with never allowing harm to come to them. I will not put up less of a fight because the wife and kids are at home.


    What I was conveying is that I would have to put my family above any concerns for putting the other victims into a hostage situation.
    The other victims are ALREADY hostages and, once herded into a walk-in cooler, as good as dead.
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back 40 View Post
    I believe that you would need to be calm and go with the flow, until they want to move you to the back. 9 time out of 10 that is where the "bad" things are going to happen. Don't let them move you! I always tell my wife that a BG is not taking you somewhere so that they can be more polite. They are taking you there so they have more control and less odds of detection.....exactly what you dont want.

    If you have to fight be swift, viscous and have no mercy
    Absolutely Correct!


    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This is a perfect example of why it is a good idea to carry a reserve ammo magazine, especially for those of us who carry a 1911.
    Six rounds is 75% of capacity on an eight round stick and 60% for a ten rounder.

    Anyone on the street carrying less than eight rounds is woefully inadequate.
    I don't believe a lot of people think of things in this way, and do the math.

    As to firing six shots, that might not be how I would make the play.
    One shot to the first man to stun if not put hm down...Reposition myself as relative to him (assume he's still alive and threat capable!) while also looking for T2 and T3.
    Fire once or maybe twice into T2 if he's spotted alone. If not then it's T2 and T3 for one and then a follow up on to either for additional rounds as necessary.

    And that is assuming and hoping I don't miss/drop a shot!

    All the while I continue to employ the Casius Clay technique; 'Stick & Move'...And try to keep track of known GGs (customers and employees) among my background as well as my 4, 6, and 8.

    A ton of work and very high stress with great personal risk.
    Or, one could play the other side of the coin and be led into a room with no exit.

    Terrible choices either way but circumstance requires that a choice be made, and by that you are stuck with it. : |

    - Janq
    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    You and everyone has one on their person at all times.

    Two hands...


    Silent, swift, immediate...And not dependent on gender or even to within extremes physical strength.

    Watch the video closely...These blockheads (BGs) corralled a whole mass of people at once as alone leaving one guy to work them as the cowboy while the other two (off camera) are working the place.
    Turn and contact the first guy standing there (who looks to be a buck fifty max) covering his mouth and either disable him there as he stands or drag/push him into the _freezer_ and lock it.

    Now you have a tactical advantage because the other guys they didn't hear a sound.
    It would be great if some other GG person offered to assist as well. : |

    - Janq

    P.S. - Even better is if anyone had a reasonably sharp impact weapon at hand, never mind a knife!, that thrust with _force_ direct into the threats neck...Again with hand over mouth to muffle his cry/scream.
    Hideous to think of but so is shooting a human being or being shot or raped or watching someone else suffer same, before being placed in a commercial freezer.
    It's all horrible...So one might need in the moment so as to survive to mentally disconnect and become someone or something else than who/what they normally are. : |
    Janq, both these posts are very sound tactics and probably very similar to my response. And +1 on the ammo capacity!

    You have to play things as you see it unfold before you, and these types of situations are very dynamic and fluid as they progress. The more people involved, the more unknown types of human behavior you are likely to encounter from the victims as well as the tango's. You have to be willing to be flexible and dynamic in your response, however you should have some sort of basic game plan to work from. Each action you make has the capability of changing the entire equation from what you may have anticipated and if you can adapt, you have a better chance of survival.

    The more adept you are at employing a tactically sound response the more options you will have. If you don't study and utilize tactical thinking in your planning and training time, you're kind of stuck with just standing there and trying to blast away.

    I often tell students in most situations I would rather face an accurate shooter who is tactically stupid than a average shooter who is a smart tactician.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  13. #43
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    Not being macho here but my truthful answer is if BGs want to lead me to some back room cooler "Sorry!" somebody is dieing before that happens & it will be either them or me and hopefully not me.

    Total subservient compliance is no guarantee (especially these days) that you'll come out of any deadly peril scenario alive ~ so you might as well go out like a Mensch and not a mouse AKA one to the back of the head kneeling or "face down" execution style.

  14. #44
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    Several points as I answer:

    1. It has been implied that the patrons were being searched and robbed. If that is the case, then as others have stated, it is IMPERATVE NOT TO GIVE UP YOUR WEAPON OR LET THEM DISCOVER IT. Decision time is definite at that point if not earlier.

    2. The possibility of faking some type of illness to distract them as they are working the room or beginning to herd the other patrons. With my gray hair, I think I could be more than convincing. This could potentially accomplish several things. It could bring one or more directly to me. It could allow other patrons to make a break. etc etc. Regardless of the results of my "acting", I am now commited at that point. It will be time to focus and rock n roll.

    3. Try gaining some type of separation from the group. The "acting" could do it. Allowing others to go ahead could do it. GETTING OFF THE X and committing will definitely do it.

    In my opinion, when the move is made, a loud verbal command to the other patrons would need to be made, i.e. "GET DOWN NOW", in hopes they will react to your command as you are GETTING OFF THE X. My family know that if I EVER give that type of command, they are never to question but to react immediately. I will NOT allow myself/family to be herded to a point where all are grouped together. Upon entering that restaurant, I will have noted entrances/exits, cover/concealment, and will have mentally formed a plan in the event of bad things happening. I agree 3 vs 1 odds are not the best in the world, but YOU have the element of surprise. When you move, do it decisevly, agressively, and violently. YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. Your accuracy will take precedence over speed. Shot placement wins the fight! NEVER GIVE UP. You are going to die sometime. You can't stop it from happening. However, you have some control over how it happens and when it happens. Train Train Train!!! JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #45
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    The one thing that I like about this web site, is the lack of liberal logic: "If I am really, really nice and polite and compliant and quiet, these misunderstood underprivileged disfunctional abused misused economically and socially-disadvantaged victim-members of our cruel unfair unjust country/society will appreciate and realize that I am empathetic, sympathetic and understanding of their plight and personal problems, me being different and better and more caring and compassionate than the capitalistic militaristic oppressive power structure and its supporters, of course. So, once again, they could or would never hurt or murder me, their nice new brilliant psychobabbling friend."

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