Would you try to do something?

This is a discussion on Would you try to do something? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Facing a suicidal sociopath is not the same as being confronted by a group of thugs that are after my money. They've already qualified as ...

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Thread: Would you try to do something?

  1. #61
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Facing a suicidal sociopath is not the same as being confronted by a group of thugs that are after my money.
    They've already qualified as sociopaths. What may seem "suicidal" to you may just seem "manly" to them.

    If they weren't willing to accept the possibility of harming someone, more likely reveling in it, they'd be stealing parked cars or TVs out of unoccupied homes, selling drugs, or dare I say it, working an honest job.

    When I was in grade school in Chicago, my father knew a Mexican guy. The guy was held up and meekly complied as you suggest. The robber then slashed both of his cheeks with a straight razor because, "he didn't have enough money".

    I'm not EVER doing anything premised on a violent criminal doing the "right thing".
    Last edited by Deanimator; May 23rd, 2010 at 01:54 PM.

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  3. #62
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    Unlike you and some others that have posted here, the day will NEVER come that I trust my life to the goodwill of some POS robbing a friggin' Denny's or in any other scenario you can imagine.
    If he's robbing somebody, he's already tested negative for judgment and human decency. For a lot of people like that, murder (and worse) isn't a leap, just a casual, even absent minded step.

  4. #63
    Member Array BigLebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    I'm a LEO and I already posted what I would do. I've got little kids too and I fully intend to watch them grow to raise my grandchildren to adulthood and then I expect to bounce my great grandkids on my knee, but unlike you, I'm going to take it upon myself to assure that I get home alive or protect my family if they're with me. I'm NOT going to comply and wait around to be killed while hoping the cavalry shows up in time.

    I recommend you decide at what point you're going to fight and get to it because as soon as a bunch of thugs come through the door with guns you can assume that you (and your family if they're there) are as good as dead.

    Unlike you and some others that have posted here, the day will NEVER come that I trust my life to the goodwill of some POS robbing a friggin' Denny's or in any other scenario you can imagine.
    Unlike you and some other that have posted here I, for the life of me, can’t figure out how an unwilling cooperation under a pointed gun gets interpreted as a trust to the goodwill of a thug.

    As a LEO you’ve undoubtedly pointed your gun at someone on one or two occasions, while making a request for cooperation. Do tell me this is the time for the guy on the wrong side of the gun to start the fight, because I ain’t seeing it. I’m saying this perfectly aware there might be no other time coming all together. And this means I am $hit out of luck.

    All those “what if” scenarios are fun to discuss, on a rainy afternoon, and in a forum like this, but still pretty pointless in my view. I believe, unless someone lived through an ordeal like this, he or she has no idea what they would do, or how they are going to react.

    In the end, I did ask for a LEO’s opinion, and I appreciate you shared yours. Thank you.
    Whatcha got ain't nothin new. ....... you can't stop what's coming, it ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity.
    Ellis, No Country for Old Men.

  5. #64
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    I can't believe anyone could sincerely think that they can actually know the intentions of a bad guy or group of bad guys. To say, "they're just after the money" is well, pretty ignorant.

    Action is always faster than reaction. If you wait for the BG to start shooting or killing, it's too late. Being herded anywhere is at best a very bad sign and in all probability it means that you're about to die. YOU need to start the action if you intend to survive the situation. There have been some very good tactics given here already. If you're not prepared to take action when needed, you might as well stop carrying around that heavy piece of metal and go buy a whistle!

    Just sayin'
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  6. #65
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLebowski View Post
    Unlike you and some other that have posted here I, for the life of me, can’t figure out how an unwilling cooperation under a pointed gun gets interpreted as a trust to the goodwill of a thug.

    As a LEO you’ve undoubtedly pointed your gun at someone on one or two occasions, while making a request for cooperation. Do tell me this is the time for the guy on the wrong side of the gun to start the fight, because I ain’t seeing it. I’m saying this perfectly aware there might be no other time coming all together. And this means I am $hit out of luck.

    All those “what if” scenarios are fun to discuss, on a rainy afternoon, and in a forum like this, but still pretty pointless in my view. I believe, unless someone lived through an ordeal like this, he or she has no idea what they would do, or how they are going to react.

    In the end, I did ask for a LEO’s opinion, and I appreciate you shared yours. Thank you.
    I don't point my gun at you "while making a request for cooperation". If I'm pointing my gun at you I am demanding compliance and fully intend to shoot you if I don't get it. Why on earth would you think it's different for anyone else?

    Since these turds stormed the restaurant with loaded weapons in hand then I would assume that they have committed themselves to doing whatever they have to to be succesful and escape alive. As difficult as it is for some people to fathom that could/would include killing men, women, and children in cold blood if that's what it takes. YOU CAN'T APPEAL TO THEIR HUMANITY, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY!! If they did, they wouldn't be there threatening (not requesting cooperation) to kill you if you don't submit, now would they?

    This is a scenario where the best thing you can do is shoot first and keep shooting until the threat is neutralized because this kind of situation isn't going to work itself out.
    Last edited by WC145; May 23rd, 2010 at 08:33 PM. Reason: left out a "be"
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    The one thing that I like about this web site, is the lack of liberal logic: "If I am really, really nice and polite and compliant and quiet, these misunderstood underprivileged disfunctional abused misused economically and socially-disadvantaged victim-members of our cruel unfair unjust country/society will appreciate and realize that I am empathetic, sympathetic and understanding of their plight and personal problems, me being different and better and more caring and compassionate than the capitalistic militaristic oppressive power structure and its supporters, of course. So, once again, they could or would never hurt or murder me, their nice new brilliant psychobabbling friend."
    Cold Warrior:

    We can only hope that should you or I be caught up in this type of situation that most of the other people are like the ones you describe so that the dirtbags will get complacent at the compliance of the others and not focus on us.

    Capt. Art

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    A word somewhat related to the last post.
    Be one of the complacent and compliant individuals until you make your move. Avoid eye contact. Don't puff up you chest or display a "hard face". These actions will only make you a target for scrutiny and possible indivdual attention.
    Be a mouse until the bear comes forth.

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    A word somewhat related to the last post.
    Be one of the complacent and compliant individuals until you make your move. Avoid eye contact. Don't puff up you chest or display a "hard face". These actions will only make you a target for scrutiny and possible indivdual attention.
    Be a mouse until the bear comes forth.
    +1 ... EXCELLENT post...
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    +1 ... EXCELLENT post...


    And as a 70 yo that would be a lot easier for me to do
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  11. #70
    Member Array BigLebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    I don't point my gun at you "while making a request for cooperation". If I'm pointing my gun at you I am demanding compliance and fully intend to shoot you if I don't get it. Why on earth would you think it's different for anyone else?

    Since these turds stormed the restaurant with loaded weapons in hand then I would assume that they have committed themselves to doing whatever they have to to be succesful and escape alive. As difficult as it is for some people to fathom that could/would include killing men, women, and children in cold blood if that's what it takes. YOU CAN'T APPEAL TO THEIR HUMANITY, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY!! If they did, they wouldn't there threatening (not requesting cooperation) to kill you if you don't submit, now would they?

    This is a scenario where the best thing you can do is shoot first and keep shooting until the threat is neutralized because this kind of situation isn't going to work itself out.

    You can hang on to my choice of words all you want; it still does not change the bottom line- you do not argue with a muzzle of the gun in your face, no matter who points it at you, a compliance demanding LEO, threatening stray dog of a thug, or jealousy ridden ex. requesting an account of your last night’s whereabouts……..That’s just my opinion.

    You suggested starting shooting as the best way to avoid the above mentioned rendezvous with a gun, and I’d wholeheartedly agree with that if I were the only patron in there.
    Introduction of many other people at the scene with the possibility of a collateral damage makes me not so sure….but that’s for another thread.

    My original question was: what do you suppose to do when already facing the gun? Is the selection to cooperate in order to pick a better spot for a strike (or perhaps a chance to get out of the whole thing unscarred) carries the same low percentage of survival as the attempt to draw and fight right there?
    Whatcha got ain't nothin new. ....... you can't stop what's coming, it ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity.
    Ellis, No Country for Old Men.

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLebowski View Post
    My original question was: what do you suppose to do when already facing the gun? Is the selection to cooperate in order to pick a better spot for a strike (or perhaps a chance to get out of the whole thing unscarred) carries the same low percentage of survival as the attempt to draw and fight right there?
    While I believe that I understand where you are coming from on some points and I agree with them to some extent.

    On this last point it is a judgement call IMO. I have been there. In one particular case it happened to be a shotgun. I had a scar on the side of my nose from the barrel for years. I chose to draw and and take the necessary measures. I am still here. You make the call and take your chances.

  13. #72
    Member Array BigLebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    ...On this last point it is a judgement call IMO. I have been there. In one particular case it happened to be a shotgun. I had a scar on the side of my nose from the barrel for years. I chose to draw and and take the necessary measures. I am still here. You make the call and take your chances.
    To be there and being able to tell counts for a lot.

    Thanks for sharing.
    Whatcha got ain't nothin new. ....... you can't stop what's coming, it ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity.
    Ellis, No Country for Old Men.

  14. #73
    Member Array Dragonheart's Avatar
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    I think everyone's "honest" answer to the question is going to depend on their knowledge of themselves and their own abilities. I know so many that have concealed carry licenses that only fire their firearm to re-qualify every four years. If they can pass the required shooting proficiency that a 75 year old women could pass they are content. Would a person with this skill level have much of a chance against three, probably not.

    I personally practice engaging three or more targets on a regular basis. Would I choose to do so? No, but if left with no alternative, I would draw knowing I had the element of surprise and knowing I was going to hit multiple targets in under two seconds. You have to practice the way you would react in a real situation.

  15. #74
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLebowski View Post
    You suggested starting shooting as the best way to avoid the above mentioned rendezvous with a gun, and I’d wholeheartedly agree with that if I were the only patron in there.
    Being shot with a group isn't more inviting to me than being shot by myself.

  16. #75
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    The only reason you go to a Denny's "late Wednesday night" is to get a greasy meal after a night of drinking. That means no firearm. Not saying anyone here would be put themselves in that situation, but it makes an easy target for the bad guys.

    On the other hand, it sure makes me think about my PM9 with and extra mag. Is 14 rounds enough for 3 bad guys?

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