Chicago could require gun owners get training, liability insurance if handgun ban ove

This is a discussion on Chicago could require gun owners get training, liability insurance if handgun ban ove within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Griffworks Up to this post, I agree w/what you had to say. However, w/this insulting tone, you lost me. It's pretty clear ...

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Thread: Chicago could require gun owners get training, liability insurance if handgun ban ove

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffworks View Post
    Up to this post, I agree w/what you had to say. However, w/this insulting tone, you lost me. It's pretty clear to me that you're someone with an extremely weak arguement, having to attack the person w/the oppossing viewpoint instead trying to convince me otherwise in a friendly, rational manner.

    What a swell fella you present yourself to be....
    Unless you've lived there, Chicago is as much outside of your experience as North Korea. It is a Hobbesian war of all against all, on a racial, religious and ethnic basis. You don't have to like it. It just is.

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  3. #32
    Member Array SigFan's Avatar
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    I currently live in Chicago. As an earlier poster said, we already have gun registration. Handguns registrations are not accepted (aka the ban), but if you want a shotgun or rifle, it must be registered before taking posession of it and the registration must be renewed annually. If the registration lapses, the gun becomes permanently unregisterable and can no longer legally be possessed within the city.

    While it is legal to have shotguns and rifles if they are properly registered, there is currently no training, insurance or other requirement to ownership. Keep in mind that even if the handgun ban is struck down, it will mean that some right to possess a handgun in the home will exist. It will not mean concealed carry is coming. So, it will be interesting to see if there is a training or insurance requirement to own a handgun for home defense, while long guns can be owned with no such requirement, or if they implement similar requirements for all guns. Seems to me, as long as we are not talking about concealed carry, that there is no reason to treat handguns differently from long guns for home defense.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Chicago will "try" to make it impossible to obtain and own a gun, or cost prohibitive. They will end up back in court and lose ..... just as DC did, in fact the 2nd case in DC will be used against them. They cannot intentionally pass laws to prohibit something from the 'average person' and which is not considered reasonable.

  5. #34
    Member Array Griffworks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Unless you've lived there, Chicago is as much outside of your experience as North Korea. It is a Hobbesian war of all against all, on a racial, religious and ethnic basis. You don't have to like it. It just is.
    So, I couldn't possibly even come close to understanding it... why, exactly? Must be one of those "things" that only someone w/your vast intellect can grasp, right?

    That's the tone that you're once again pushing.

    Whatever.

    I get what everyone is saying - including you and your arrogant tone - and while I've not experienced it first-hand, have a fairly decent grasp of things that might not have happened to me first-hand. Things in Chi-Town fall in to that category, as I've got friends and family who live/have lived there. I may not have been aware of all the nuiances of the situation, but have been educated in this thread.

    Abstract thinking is something that human beings are capable of handling, after all, tho not everyone can do so. Just because a person hasn't experienced a thing directly doesn't mean that they can't grasp a line of thinking. Civil discourse goes a long way towards helping with that....
    Arkansas Concealed Carry Instructor #12-751

    If guns kill people, then:
    Pincels miss spel werds;
    Cars make people drive drunk;
    And spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat.

  6. #35
    Member Array Griffworks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Chicago will "try" to make it impossible to obtain and own a gun, or cost prohibitive. They will end up back in court and lose ..... just as DC did, in fact the 2nd case in DC will be used against them. They cannot intentionally pass laws to prohibit something from the 'average person' and which is not considered reasonable.
    I imagine that the next argument that they'll try to make is to define "reasonable"....
    Arkansas Concealed Carry Instructor #12-751

    If guns kill people, then:
    Pincels miss spel werds;
    Cars make people drive drunk;
    And spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat.

  7. #36
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigFan View Post
    If the registration lapses, the gun becomes permanently unregisterable and can no longer legally be possessed within the city.
    ...UNLESS you're Alderman Richard Mell, father-in-law of impeached fruitloop former governor Rod Blagojevic. In THAT case they will pass legislation allowing YOU (and as few other people as humanly possible to provide political cover) to register after the registration has lapsed.

    The two most evil places I've been in the world were North Korea and Chicago, not necessarily in that order.

  8. #37
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    In FL, at least where I did my class. The rules about where you can and cannot carry were discussed and castle doctrine was explained along with what is considered justified. The class was taught by an LEO who is also an NRA firearms instructor, so it may have been different than other classes. It was also less than an hour and limited to no more than 4 people at a time by appointment. I always thought that the basic laws and an understanding of the safety aspects should be required curriculum at least so that you're not throwing someone out there blind.

    Firearm training is not the same thing really when I think about it. When I think about training I think about the classes that teach defensive or tactical pistol concepts. Shooting retention and the like.

    I think the issue in my mind is this... The second amendment is what protects all our other rights in the constitution. Without it everything else can be oppressed and squashed down for "the general safety of the people". Safety of whom exactly? The politicians of course...
    I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    My initial six-hour permit class was also taught by a LEO, but from LEO's perspective. What I'm trying to convey is that mandatory training can still suck and in the end will be "throwing someone out there blind."

    The Minnesota carry permit law was written by pro-gun attorneys and professors, and it is a pretty good law. I'd like to have the 'retreat' part exchanged with "stand your ground," but other than that I'm fine with it. We can carry CC or OC.

    Here is the thing, we've got some great instructors, but we've got a lot of bad ones too. Now it's all about $, even for those who started out to instruct as many Minnesotans as possible with the highest standards and least expenditures. Sad.

    Stay safe.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.” -- Cicero

  9. #38
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson85746 View Post
    IMHO, I think it is foolish and irresponsible to either OC or CCW without being well versed in the local laws.
    I concur.

    But, a quick read of local gun forums of any state will reveal you that local people lack the knowledge - being well versed - even after the mandatory training or years of carrying.

    Stay safe.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.” -- Cicero

  10. #39
    Member Array ming's Avatar
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    If Chicago does institute a training requirement you can bet Daley's buddies will be running the schools. Similarly on insurance requirements. If you really want to know what's going on with any matter in Chicago, a good first bet is to follow the money.

  11. #40
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    Mandatory training <> knowledge is received...especially if mandated by the state. It's a block-checking exercise. For the current/former military here--Think: Friday afternoon safety briefings....does anyone learn anything new? Does it prevent anyone from doing stupid stuff? Nope....

    Personal responsibility....it's for everyone....
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    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  12. #41
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    The basic question beyond "shall not be infringed" is whether the government has the legitimate authority to regulate the private property of private citizens. If you say that it does, is it because a private individual's daily path might cross a space that legally prohibits possession of a handgun?
    Isn't that why we sanction gun prohibition posts?
    It isn't just Chicago. It's every government that requires registration, training, licensing / permitting.... However "reasonable" it sounds, where does the Constitution say that the government can do it?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  13. #42
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffworks View Post
    So, I couldn't possibly even come close to understanding it... why, exactly? Must be one of those "things" that only someone w/your vast intellect can grasp, right?

    That's the tone that you're once again pushing.
    If you haven't lived there for an extended period of time, you simply cannot understand the depth of the communal malice that exists there. There is mutual intergroup hatred of the kind you'd expect in Northern Ireland or Rwanda.

    The average Chicagoan of whatever race, ethnicity or religion will placidly tolerate you stealing his last $5 at gunpoint, so long as he believes that you're going to use $4.98 of it to harm some group of people he doesn't like.

    Nor can you adequately grasp the all pervasive corruption. If your local police department hasn't had a home invasion/burglary/kidnapping ring operating INSIDE it, and in the most "elite" unit to boot, you don't REALLY understand Chicago.

    The western concept of rational-logical thought is simply alien there. A couple of guys shot and killed an off-duty cop for his motorcycle last week. His father, a retired cop came out and shot them both, killing one of them. The mother of one of the imbecile holdup men criticized the father for not "wounding" her son instead of killing him... after he'd just murdered a cop. Nevermind the fact that if you'd shot those two while they were dismembering your two year old daughter with chainsaws, that cop who was murdered would have arrested YOU.

    That's Chicago.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    If your passin' through Chicago, say hi to the mayor...


    "Howdy mayor!"
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    If your passin' through Chicago, say hi to the mayor...


    "Howdy mayor!"
    If I were you, I wouldn't show that part of my body to Dick Daley:

    Daley threatens to sodomize reporter with SKS.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    I would really hate to see the insurance portion of this, it would be astranomical in my view.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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