From Their Cold Dead Hands

This is a discussion on From Their Cold Dead Hands within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; From Their Cold Dead Hands The idea of terrorists with guns is not a pleasant thought, and considering how gung-ho Americans are about fighting terrorists, ...

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Thread: From Their Cold Dead Hands

  1. #1
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    From Their Cold Dead Hands

    From Their Cold Dead Hands

    The idea of terrorists with guns is not a pleasant thought, and considering how gung-ho Americans are about fighting terrorists, common sense dictates that we would do everything possible to ensure that they don’t get their hands on any. If that’s the case, then leading members of the NRA do not have common sense.

    There is a “terror gap” at the moment, one that allows people on the terrorist watch list to easily buy guns without so much as a second glance on the part of the seller. It’s good business for the person selling the gun, but bad news for our national security interests. But why is it that the same people backing the Republican Party, and the same people that had the nerve to lower the gun rights scores of congressmen if they voted for health care reform – which naturally has an obvious link to gun rights – are fighting efforts to make it harder for terrorists to get guns?

    I cannot even begin to guess, but I will give the NRA credit for staying consistent; they want everyone to have a gun without limits, no matter what.

    In recent memory, the gun battle has surfaced again and again, to a large extent for no good reason. ...

    These same ignorant people had the gall to show up outside of a town hall event where the president was speaking with guns!

    They strapped them to their legs or carried them out in the open at several rallies and town halls last summer. When these people were questioned, they didn’t feel there was anything wrong with their decision to bring guns to crowded public events.

    Naturally, the NRA encouraged this activity and considered it a brave stand for Second Amendment rights. Now, its leaders are encouraging the loophole to remain open, but this time, they’re alone.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.” -- Cicero

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Do you really think terrorists get their weapons legally from local gun shops? Puhleaze! Oh, maybe one or two will buy a gun legally for a quick in/out or suicide operation, but most will bring them in through the black market, terrorist supply railroads, and other illegal channels.

    I'm not going to spout the "constitutional right" to bear arms. That's not the point of your post. However, I am going to take up the position of being able to defend myself. Criminals, and now terrorists, have ALWAYS been able to get guns. The law-abiding population in general has seldom been able to arm themselves in kind. Now, knowing the criminal will be able to get a weapon irrespective of the law, isn't it prudent for the citizenry to be armed as well? Even the Dalai Lama said it, "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    This fruit from the land of nuts get's it wrong from the very first sentence:
    The idea of terrorists with guns is not a pleasant thought, and considering how gung-ho Americans are about fighting terrorists, common sense dictates that we would do everything possible to ensure that they don’t get their hands on any.
    And why not? So because Americans are "gung-ho" about fighting terrorists then it's a bad thing for them to be armed? Wonderful logic, unless of course, you're in the business of aiding and abetting terrorists.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Here's the reason that the terrorist watch list should not be used for gun purchases, is because it is based on names, and little else. It's more than possible for someone to be "on the list" because their name is similar to someone that actually should be on the list. Until they fix the way this list is created, monitored and updated, it's worthless.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
    Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig

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    Member Array Timezoneguy's Avatar
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    Watch lists are surely not exact science. Rest assured if the government could use the list to prevent you from having a gun they would do it. It is absurd to think we could stop bad people from causing harm by taking away their gun. Golf clubs would be next. As I read about multiple shootings I always feel bad that a good guy was not present with a gun and stop the bad guy. Look back at the last 5 mass shootings. They all end one of 2 ways. The bad guy shoots as many as possible and usually saves the last bullet for him self or a good guy steps in and stops the bad guy from killing more people. Bad guys are usually cowards and seem unwilling to attack where the possibility of armed resistance is high. Ever heard of a mass killing at a gun range? Tons of guns there but no one is out of line. MN2go I get your point, but reducing the ability of good people to defend them selves enhances a terrorist's capability.
    In a gun fight, you can not miss fast enough, to catch up.

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    Member Array RTSteve's Avatar
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    Just a matter of time before people who own multiple guns are placed on one of these watch lists. Truth be told, we have no clue what criteria are used to make someone a terror suspect. Governments routinely use fear to strip us of our rights. I'd like to stand up before they come for me, not when there's no one left but me.

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Ted kennedy was on the no fly list. The list is BS, and until they find a real way to track these people, Ill stand by the NRA.

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Do you really think terrorists get their weapons legally from local gun shops? Puhleaze! Oh, maybe one or two will buy a gun legally for a quick in/out or suicide operation, but most will bring them in through the black market, terrorist supply railroads, and other illegal channels.
    Maj Hassan bought his gun from a gun store. Up until that point, he was (supposedly), a law-abiding citizen.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    Thumbs down Wrong list

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    The list is BS, and until they find a real way to track these people, Ill stand by the NRA.
    My name is on the "No-fly-list" and it is a hassle.

    An actual Australian born terrorist had the same name before he adopted the name "Muhammed Dawood" when he became a trainee for Al Qaeda. BTW that was after he went off to join the Kosovo Liberation Army.

    So even while he was at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, securely in US custody, I had to plan on an hour or two delay at airports and missed many a connecting flight when changing airlines.

    See:

    David Hicks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/wo...icks.html?_r=1

    and

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/wo...a/21hicks.html
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    I guess some missed the fact that this was an article from a newspaper I provided a link to, not my personal opinion ... Puhleaze!
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.” -- Cicero

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    My name is on the "No-fly-list" and it is a hassle.

    An actual Australian born terrorist had the same name before he adopted the name "Muhammed Dawood" when he became a trainee for Al Qaeda. BTW that was after he went off to join the Kosovo Liberation Army.

    So even while he was at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, securely in US custody, I had to plan on an hour or two delay at airports and missed many a connecting flight when changing airlines.

    See:

    David Hicks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/wo...icks.html?_r=1

    and

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/wo...a/21hicks.html
    I understand the lists are different. My point was that if Kennedy was on the no fly list, anyone could be denied there right to by a gun. I should have made myself more clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I understand the lists are different. My point was that if Kennedy was on the no fly list, anyone could be denied there right to by a gun. I should have made myself more clear.
    No misunderstanding, here.

    I got the point and completely agree. BTDTGDT -- many times over.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    If being on a "list" is enough to keep you from owning a gun, why shouldn't it keep you from voting, owning property or getting married?

    Nobody knows how you get on the "no fly" list.
    Nobody knows how you get off of it.

    As was pointed out, Ted "Baron Harkonnen" Kennedy was on it. It took THREE WEEKS to get him off. How long would it take YOU?

    The idea that a US citizen should be deprived of a fundamental liberty without due process of law is not just stupid, it's unAmerican, as is anyone who promotes it.

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    If being on a "list" is enough to keep you from owning a gun, why shouldn't it keep you from voting, owning property or getting married?

    Nobody knows how you get on the "no fly" list.
    Nobody knows how you get off of it.

    As was pointed out, Ted "Baron Harkonnen" Kennedy was on it. It took THREE WEEKS to get him off. How long would it take YOU?

    The idea that a US citizen should be deprived of a fundamental liberty without due process of law is not just stupid, it's unAmerican, as is anyone who promotes it.
    I agree, but it seems to be the norm these days in this country of ours. I really believe that people are in the dark with all the homeland security BS. Things need to change (for the better this time)

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    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    The private person should have the right to discriminate, without being charged or sued or pestered or prosecuted or punished for racist profiling hate; or at least to do some profiling without smiling, asking for and recording ID, you see. A CCW license at least shows people who know that the pictured person has been background checked more than most folks.

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