Legality of this scenario

This is a discussion on Legality of this scenario within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was watching COPS last night, (yeah, I know. But I really don't have any other vices) and it was featuring New Orleans finest. It ...

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Thread: Legality of this scenario

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    Senior Member Array AzB's Avatar
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    Legality of this scenario

    I was watching COPS last night, (yeah, I know. But I really don't have any other vices) and it was featuring New Orleans finest. It was Mardi Gras and they were patrolling Bourbon street.

    At one point as the cops were moving through the crowd, a uniformed patrolman bumps a man, and as he's kind of pushing him gently with his hand, he feels a gun on his hip. So they arrest him for CC.

    Now this isn't about whether CC is allowed in New Orleans, or whether or not this guy had a license. But if it was illegal, and he didn't have a license, would that form of discovery be legal? It seems borderline illegal search...

    Anyway, just curious if anyone has any insight.
    Az

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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    I would say that with the amount of alcohol freely consumed, a person with a concealed handgun, even with permit, and drinking cannot be a good thing.

    Too many have temporarily lost their mind with drink, having a handgun close at hand and using it in the heat of the moment. Looks like New Orleans cops are trying to stop a potentially deadly situation.
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    I would imagine the contact would have been considered incidental as we all know we will have contact when walking through a crowd.

    And if he truly felt the gun during incidental contact then why would it be legal, it would be the same to me as seeing the gun because someone was printing.
    Mark

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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    You are going to articulate in your PC that you made incidental contact and that because you are farmiliar with handguns you felt what you believed to be a concealed handgun on the individual you made contact with. I see no problem with the PC for making the search.
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    Member Array 45s4life's Avatar
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    I don't remember and can't find anything about printing in Louisiana. However, we can not carry in any establishments that serve alcohol for consumption or at parades. Being Mardi Gras, it would probably be considered a parade, even though it isn't and no carry is allowed. I wonder what the outcome was in court.

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    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    It may have been blatantly obvious to the officer that the individual was intoxicated, with a weapon = busted!
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    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    I would imagine the contact would have been considered incidental as we all know we will have contact when walking through a crowd.

    And if he truly felt the gun during incidental contact then why would it be legal, it would be the same to me as seeing the gun because someone was printing.
    Are you sure you support gun rights? How would someone carry a gun that can't be seen, can't even be felt, in a manner where they could get to it quickly in an emergency? That's a ridiculous burden to put on gun owners. You be limited to using a smart carry or some sort of padded case.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    As described, I'm inclined to say the search was compliant with the constitution and caselaw on the plain feel doctrine.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keester View Post
    Are you sure you support gun rights?
    Are you sure you are a supporter of gun rights when you don't know the constitution well enough to see that this is a 4th amendment issue, not a 2nd amendment issue?

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    As others have said, and without having seen the episode, I think if the cop genuinely felt the gun during normal interaction of pushing his way through the crowd, then it's perfectly legal. It's no different than a cop walking buy a car with the windows open and smelling pot smoke coming out of it, stopping to search the car.
    Now, the guy with the gun could probably argue that the cops were intentionally putting their hands on people, not because of the crowded conditions, but specifically for this reason. He might be able to stretch that far enough to get out of it on a technicality, with a good lawyer.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Are you sure you support gun rights?
    This isn't a "gun rights" issue.

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    Senior Member Array AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSteve View Post
    Now, the guy with the gun could probably argue that the cops were intentionally putting their hands on people, not because of the crowded conditions, but specifically for this reason. He might be able to stretch that far enough to get out of it on a technicality, with a good lawyer.
    That's what I'm wondering.
    Az

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    I’m originally from Louisiana and I lived in New Orleans for a couple of years. Now, before you paint me as a mullet loving redneck, I should point out that I was raised in California. In fact, I was a LEO. Anyway, things down there are pretty much different from other places. If the LEO says he felt a gun by a casual manner, then it's highly unlikely the guy has a chance against the court. If the same thing occurred in California, the citizen would become a millionaire.
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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    If I am in uniform working my way through a crowd asking people to move and telling them my authority, " Police please move", I may well be placing my hands on some people to let them know of my presence and keep them away from my weapon. If I inadvertantly touch an object that I know to be a weapon I am completely justified in continuing to follow upon that PC if the situation warrants. It is not a second amendment issue it is a public safety issue given the situation that has been described in the episode of "Cops".
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    Member Array keester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Are you sure you are a supporter of gun rights when you don't know the constitution well enough to see that this is a 4th amendment issue, not a 2nd amendment issue?
    Arguing about whether the 'search' was legal is a 4th amendment issue. I'm talking about whether the 'search' is even relevant. Demanding that firearms be concealed against direct physical contact rules out most common carry methods and constitutes a major burden on people trying to exercise their rights.

    -- Maybe I misinterpretted me's comment. I originally took it to mean he thought simply discovering a gun either due to printing or contact was sufficient to stop someone. Maybe he meant in combination with other factors such as alcohol.

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