Defendant, 61, says killing of teen was justified

Defendant, 61, says killing of teen was justified

This is a discussion on Defendant, 61, says killing of teen was justified within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Email thisShare thisPrint thisComments (159) Defendant, 61, says killing of teen was justified By Heather Ratcliffe ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH 05/26/2010 ST. LOUIS — Johnnie Pulley ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
  1. #1
    Member Array jmc0106's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    33

    Defendant, 61, says killing of teen was justified

    Email thisShare thisPrint thisComments (159)
    Defendant, 61, says killing of teen was justified
    By Heather Ratcliffe
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    05/26/2010

    ST. LOUIS — Johnnie Pulley called police repeatedly when he recognized the teenager on a bus last July.

    He was the same teen who had brutally assaulted Pulley, 61, on a bus en route to work two months before, Pulley said.

    When officers failed to arrive, Pulley followed the teen on two buses and then across a street until they finally met on a sidewalk.

    Moments later 17-year-old Brandon Colenburg was on the ground with a fatal bullet wound to the stomach.



    Now a St. Louis jury must decide whether Pulley acted in self-defense or killed the teen for revenge. They were still deliberating late Tuesday.

    Pulley, of the 6100 block of Laura Avenue, is charged with second-degree murder and armed criminal action.

    Pulley testified at his trial in St. Louis Circuit Court this week that he drew his gun only when Colenburg turned with his fists cocked and lunged at him.

    "It was a desperate shot in an attempt at self-protection," Pulley told the jury Tuesday. "It was a life-and-death situation."
    CRIME STATS
    Get the breaking news from our St. Louis Crime Beat blog
    See stats around St. Louis and the nation in our searchable database.


    Pulley, who had a concealed weapon permit, said he carried a gun for protection. He often left for work before sunrise in his rough neighborhood of Walnut Park.

    But prosecutor Dwight Warren argued that Pulley pulled the trigger because he didn't want his attacker to get away.

    "This is not a man who is afraid of serious physical injury," Warren said. "He followed him on two buses and stopped him on the street."

    Pulley told a St. Louis jury about the previous attack. He said he sat down on a bus next to a teenager on April 29, 2009. Moments later the other passenger began elbowing Pulley in the ear. Pulley told him to stop and the teenager stood up and repeatedly punched him in the head.

    The Metro bus driver and several bystanders pulled the attacker off the bus.

    Pulley got medical attention and then reported the assault to police that evening.

    On July 1, Pulley was on the same bus route headed to his job in Olivette when he saw who he believed was his attacker on the bus.

    The teen recognized him too, Pulley insisted.

    He called police and gave a dispatcher their location along with his police report number from the assault.

    The teen got off the bus and so did Pulley. Pulley waited at Delmar Avenue and Goodfellow Boulevard for police to arrive. The teenager walked across the street and boarded another bus. Pulley followed him because no officer had shown.

    Pulley took a seat across from Colenburg and called police again with new directions. Everyone on the bus heard the call, Pulley said.

    Colenburg got off near Delmar and Union. Pulley followed.

    Pulley said when he told the teenager that he called police, Colenburg turned on him.

    Two witnesses, a Jehovah's Witness knocking on doors and a mother dropping her children at day care, said they saw the confrontation but insisted the teenager did not attack Pulley.

    Both said his arms were by his sides when the defendant fired one shot.

    Luella Johnson also testified that Colenburg could not have assaulted Pulley on the bus April 29. He was at her home that morning after celebrating her son's birthday the night before, she said.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,034
    Self defense? The laws in question are almost certain to convict him unless the teen at the moment of being found decided to attack the guy with deadly force. Short of that, he'll be found guilty. It won't matter that he was, technically, the GG and the teen the BG in the prior situation.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array Saber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    2,591
    Well, based on the story it appears that revenge is the culprit. Still, maybe the word will get out that not all bullies get a free pass. I was beaten as a kid and I’ll never forget the guy and his name. If I ever cross this guy’s path I would just likely cause him some inconvenience. Nothing physical or serious, but something nevertheless. A few decades and counting...
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wyoming, DE
    Posts
    11,095
    I think he's going to jail on this one, and his cc permit is history also. Then when he gets out he'll be a convicted felon and all of his gun privileges will be gone!
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
    dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku

  5. #5
    Member Array YFZsandrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Tacoma, Wa
    Posts
    264
    Last paragraph of the story...
    Quote Originally Posted by jmc0106 View Post
    Luella Johnson also testified that Colenburg could not have assaulted Pulley on the bus April 29. He was at her home that morning after celebrating her son's birthday the night before, she said.
    So, it sounds like no one, except the defendant shooter, has verified that the dead teenager was actually the same boy as in the previous attack?!

    I wonder if authorities could get any of the witnesses in the first bus attack to identify the dead teenager as the original suspect.

    If it was, in fact, the same kid... then I don't believe that the defendant is obligated to not confront him, just because he was armed, although it does change the situation quite a bit.
    COTEP member and 1911Forum reject

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    In Tx you have to pretty much show justification,it sounds like this guy was following the guy until police could arrive,he should have maintained a safe distance while following the guy until cops showed up,by confronting the guy he was the agressor and all the witnesses claim the victim never attacked him,his goose is cooked
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  7. #7
    GM
    GM is offline
    VIP Member Array GM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,866
    It sounds to me like Mr. Pulley is totally screwed.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central, VA
    Posts
    533
    Seems like Pulley may have run out of rope!

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams

  9. #9
    VIP Member
    Array oneshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    +42.893612,-082.710236 , Mi.
    Posts
    8,186
    Quote Originally Posted by YFZsandrider View Post
    Last paragraph of the story...


    So, it sounds like no one, except the defendant shooter, has verified that the dead teenager was actually the same boy as in the previous attack?!

    I wonder if authorities could get any of the witnesses in the first bus attack to identify the dead teenager as the original suspect.

    If it was, in fact, the same kid... then I don't believe that the defendant is obligated to not confront him, just because he was armed, although it does change the situation quite a bit.



    ^^^^^This is what should happen^^^^^^


    If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

  10. #10
    Member Array PaxMentis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    S. Oregon (aka Paradise)
    Posts
    356
    Two witnesses, a Jehovah's Witness knocking on doors and a mother dropping her children at day care, said they saw the confrontation but insisted the teenager did not attack Pulley.

    Both said his arms were by his sides when the defendant fired one shot.
    If the two seperate witnesses can be believed, this sounds a lot like murder...

    Seperate witnesses with the same story are hard to ignore.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

    -- L. Neil Smith

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    [I]Well, based on the story it appears that revenge is the culprit. Still, maybe the word will get out that not all bullies get a free pass.
    Sounds like it, yes.


    Pulley testified at his trial in St. Louis Circuit Court this week that he drew his gun only when Colenburg turned with his fists cocked and lunged at him.
    While I don't feel people should become self-styled cops on a whim in order to take down criminals, it's hard to say the man didn't have a right to find the idiot who victimized him previously. But in the end, he essentially set up the situation that all but ensured he would be drawing and firing his gun at the guy. The manner in which he went about the approach and shooting of the guy is what convicts him as a murderer himself. If you wish to remain standing, you simply cannot go about things in such a manner, not given our system of laws.

    Had he found out who the little cretin was and instead turned over the information to the DA/police for arrest and prosecution for the prior crime, then the man would not be in the legal predicament he's in now. There's more than one way to slice an onion.

    Use the head. It's our greatest weapon.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,037
    First and last mistake, following someone waiting for something to happen.

    Essentially the defendant initiated the confrontation by following this kid around. Even if it was him, a CCW does NOT EVER give you the right to play sheriff or be a vigilante. Isn't that mentioned right in the information they send out with your permit? It is in FL. I've been burglarized before and I even knew who it was and saw him. I couldn't follow him around waiting for something to occur and get him back. I had to go through the system and do things right. I received all my property back that same day. Had a couple BMX bikes stolen, totaling over $4000.

    Face it, as a CCW holder you are held up to a higher standard of conduct and professionalism than the average Joe. You are given a responsibility and entrusted to follow all applicable laws to the best of your human ability. Following someone you think looked like the kid who beat you up prior is a good way to show lack of self control, vigilante style attitude, and irresponsible behavior.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  13. #13
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Carrying a gun on a bus in Missouri, whether you have a ccw permit or not is a felony! I'm surprised he isn't being gigged for that as well.

    No gun signs posted in Missouri is basically meaningless like in FL. However the law is very specific regarding any and all buses. It's a felony unless you have permission from the bus owner.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array GlockJS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    801
    Doesn't look good for him. Even if he dodges the criminal case(not very likely), the civil case will bury him.
    Glock 26 9mm, Ruger LCR .357mag

    "Protect yourself at all times."

    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."-Clint Smith

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,034
    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    First and last mistake, following someone waiting for something to happen.
    Yup.

    Even worse, imagine if he had found out where the guy lived, then came back the next day to await his passing by. That could easily invoke the "lying in wait" clause of the statutes that cover murder. Bad legal juju, when you take off after the perpetrators.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Teen arrested in Fla. cop killing.
    By 3D in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: February 24th, 2011, 12:59 PM
  2. Calif. DA: Police killing of bystander justified
    By WhoWeBePart1 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: May 11th, 2010, 03:49 PM
  3. Elmore County Judge eases up on Murder Co-Defendant!
    By JBozeman in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: August 20th, 2009, 08:27 PM
  4. Ohio teen convicted of killing mother over 'Halo 3'
    By cvhoss in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: January 18th, 2009, 08:09 PM

Search tags for this page

dwight warren st louis prosecutor nra

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors