Gray Area: Carrying on Federal Property?

This is a discussion on Gray Area: Carrying on Federal Property? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Everyone (hopefully) knows that carrying on federal property, such as in post offices, courthouses, etc. is illegal. But, what about the property surrounding a federal ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 59

Thread: Gray Area: Carrying on Federal Property?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Mid-Hudson Valley New York State
    Posts
    4,207

    Gray Area: Carrying on Federal Property?

    Everyone (hopefully) knows that carrying on federal property, such as in post offices, courthouses, etc. is illegal.

    But, what about the property surrounding a federal building? If you are going to a Post Office, and lock your gun in the car in the P.O. parking lot, are you illegal?

    Even mailing a letter at a mailbox, you are technically touching Federal property. Or what about sitting on the courthouse steps eating lunch?

    Does anyone know of actual instances or reports of anyone being arrested or questioned for these infractions?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,319
    I've heard that the post office lot is their property as well but what about the post offices with shared lots in large plazas? (those are the kind I go to mostly)
    Glock 19
    Kahr PM9
    LMT-M4
    Mossberg 590
    Shodan, Jujutsu

  4. #3
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oceanfront Property
    Posts
    3,850
    what gun?

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Mid-Hudson Valley New York State
    Posts
    4,207
    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    I've heard that the post office lot is their property as well but what about the post offices with shared lots in large plazas? (those are the kind I go to mostly)
    That's a good point! What if you go to a shopping plaza post office, and lean on the counter while buying stamps. Are you then on federal property?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  6. #5
    Member Array Flippinstk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va
    Posts
    251
    once again.... what gun?
    Alex G.
    S&W M&P .45
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Senior Chief Petty Officer, RETIRED, USN
    Certified NRA Pistol Instructor
    NRA Range Officer

  7. #6
    Member
    Array rigel42's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    474
    It has happened.

    Deputies: Woman brought shotgun to Immokalee High School Naples Daily News

    IMMOKALEE — Collier County sheriff’s deputies arrested an 18-year-old woman Friday after they say they found a shotgun inside the trunk of her car, which was parked in the Immokalee High School visitors lot.
    If your going about your business - don't ask don't tell - I don't think anybody will bother you, but you are taking a chance.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    The VA clinic down here sits on a lot that has other stores,the VA parking lot is divided by a drive thru,one side is VA property,the other side isn't I park on the Civilian side,I can't see where a shared parking lot could be claimed under the jurisdiction of the post office
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Mid-Hudson Valley New York State
    Posts
    4,207
    [QUOTE=rigel42;1635575]It has happened.

    Deputies: Woman brought shotgun to Immokalee High School Naples Daily News

    Well, a shotgun is usually not a concealed carry weapon.


    I agree with the "don't ask, don't tell" posts, but what if, for some reason, it becomes known that you carry?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  10. #9
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    It has happened.

    Deputies: Woman brought shotgun to Immokalee High School Naples Daily News



    If your going about your business - don't ask don't tell - I don't think anybody will bother you, but you are taking a chance.
    That probably fell within the "1000 feet" of the school grounds.

    As for the post office, I've seen some that have signs in the parking lot stating, basically, that the lot is the same as inside the building.
    Never seen one in a lot that was shared with other businesses, though.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
    Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    As discussed in other threads the only carry that is prohibited by Statute is in "a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties." See the basic Federal Statute at TITLE 18 > PART I CHAPTER 44 930 . Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    United States Code: Title 18,930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities | LII / Legal Information Institute

    OTOH -- many federal agencies have issued regulations banning gun possession anywhere on agency property, not just in buildings, but even in public parking lots (e.g., Postal Service, VA, etc) they are valid and often have criminal penalties.

    Another BIG difference is that the statute requires posting.

    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
    OTOH -- most federal agencies have issued regulations that do not require posting to send you to jail.

    We need to go after then as we did with the NPS, IMHO.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  12. #11
    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    MN, U.S.A.
    Posts
    416
    Stay away from federal property, owned or rented, parking lot, side walk ... avoid feds like the plague they are. No gray area!
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right. -- Cicero

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Why would a person not now that the parking lot to support a given building is not deemed to be part of that building?
    Same as how the sidewalk/external entryway to that building or the roof of the building or the front/side/back lawn of that building is in fact part of the building & grounds.

    Folks not seeing the forest for focusing on a single tree.

    The law is _property_ not just the 'building'; "...a building or part thereof...".
    Additionally 'property' means as at or within enclosures, within mechanical devices (such as govt owned motorvehicles) and on bodies of water that are applicable govt. owned too.

    Duh.

    There is no grey/gray about this, to folks whose glasses/contacts aren't smudged.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #13
    Member Array Beretta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Deltona, Florida
    Posts
    160
    This thread came just in time. Wanted to ask about Kennedy Space Center. Were going there this Sunday. I believe its federal property, I dont intend on carrying on property. However it being federal property - does that mean I cant keep my pistol locked in a car vault?
    [__☺]
    -OllllO-
    []o=[]
    Beretta PX4 Storm .45 / Springfield Armory XDM 9 / Springfield Armory 1911 Milspec / Smith Wesson 686 / Bushmaster XM-15 E2
    DPMS A-15 Oracle / Remington 870 Express Magnum / Remington 597 .22

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Supporting evidence...

    Post Office Court Case Says No Guns in Post Offices
    Wednesday, October 21st, 2009 at 9:26 am
    http://www.ammoland.com/2009/10/21/n...-post-offices/

    Post office parking lot off limits to firearms
    October 25, 4:13 PM
    Atlanta Gun Rights Examiner
    Ed Stone
    Post office parking lot off limits to firearms

    Postmaster faces man with gun at Post Office
    Posted: Oct 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT Updated: Nov 02, 2009 4:15 PM EST
    By Karen Cohilas
    Postmaster faces man with gun at Post Office - WALB.com News, Weather and Sports for Albany, Valdosta and Thomasville. Leading the way for South Georgia. |
    "There will also likely be an investigation by federal officials, since the Post Office is a federal facility."

    Why someone would not believe the parking lot to a post office building is not part of the property and building makes no rational sense to me.
    On the few times per year that I have need to go to the post office what I do is park _off_ their property at some adjacent private or public property that is lawful, disarm myself within the car, and then _walk_ myself onto and over to the USPS property (parking lot & building).

    When on vacation last summer I ran into a scenario where the USPS building was in a shared lot with a community center & theater for the arts. I was armed.
    What I did was drive through the parking lot past the postal service office and parked myself at the far end of the lot on the horizontal adjacent to a rear entrance/exit for the theater. I disarmed, and then exited to _wal_ myself down the sidewalk to and into the USPS building.

    Problem solved easy and lawful.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  16. #15
    3D
    3D is offline
    Senior Member Array 3D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    517

    Question National Parks Too??

    On topic I hope. Would anyone viewing please tell me where I might find out the latest on CC in National Parks. I've heard it was approved, then rescinded . . (hearsay I know). Wouldn't want to screw-up on that one either.
    Thanks_____3D

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Is This Considered Federal Property?
    By CT-Mike in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: December 14th, 2009, 04:51 PM
  2. Another? gray area in Va.
    By Rmac58 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: July 21st, 2008, 01:19 AM
  3. I Now Work on Federal Property
    By jofrdo in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: September 15th, 2007, 11:20 PM
  4. Gun Free School Zone? Gray Area?
    By mr.stuart in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: September 11th, 2007, 11:57 AM
  5. Need clarification about law. Off duty carrying of a gun on federal property.
    By S.O. Interceptor in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: May 19th, 2005, 05:43 AM

Search tags for this page

carrying a concealed weapon on federal property
,

carrying firearms on federal property

,
carrying on federal property
,

concealed carry federal property

,
concealed carry on federal land
,

concealed carry on federal property

,

concealed weapons on federal property

,
federal employee concealed carry
,

firearms on federal property

,
kennedy space center concealed carry
,

post office

,
weapons on federal property
Click on a term to search for related topics.