Had my justification for violating work policy

This is a discussion on Had my justification for violating work policy within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; To summarize the encounter... I am a field service technician for a concrete paving company. I often work alone in isolated areas. Company "Verbal" policy ...

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Thread: Had my justification for violating work policy

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Had my justification for violating work policy

    To summarize the encounter...

    I am a field service technician for a concrete paving company. I often work alone in isolated areas. Company "Verbal" policy is no weapons (not in print in our employee handbook). I obey the law, and disregard work policy in matters of my personal safety, ergo I carry all day, every day.

    For the last year and a half, my company has either had a bad stretch of poor choices in hiring, has gone willy-nilly firing red-hats (managers, foreman, supervisors...) or going old school and making life so miserable that they quit.

    Thursday I was talking to one of the dirt crew foreman who was on his last couple of days since putting in his notice. He was one of those that had their life made miserable & quit. I noticed a couple of shotgun shells in the back of his pickup and jokingly said, "Have you been taking shots at the low flying geese?"

    His response - "Nah. I always have a gun though. The shotgun is not in there, but I always have my pistol. Screw what (safety manager) said at the meeting. I always carry it. These days, you never know."

    Whoa. That threw me in condition red. I knew that he had a short fuse, a bit short with people, and does not respond well to people touching him (found out when he was about to walk in front of a heavy equipment tire that had a genuine possibility of explosion and launching the lock ring a mile or so out into a field. I grabbed his coat arm as he was walking past me). Fits too many points of the criteria for a disgruntled employee.

    Friday, and I suspect for the next month or so at least I will be in Cond. orange at work.

    Did I or will I report him. Probably not. The points he met for disgruntled employee also fit those of a person that is not a people person. A person that acknowledges the need to take responsibility for personal safety. A person that is being pushed to quit instead of termination (I'd be bitter too).

    I don't know him well enough to pass that kind of judgment on a person. I see no need to throw him under the buss, and bring unnecessary attention to the "unwritten rule" on weapons.

    I thought he was a fool for openly saying that, not sure what his intent was, besides, what are they (office dwellers) going to do if they find out. Fire him? I said nothing about CCW or even perused the conversation. I just said "It's a tool. It's not a weapon unless there is intent."...Quoting what the safety manager said regarding knives at work.

    We talked for a few minuets more about work and his justification for quitting. I agreed that if what he says is true, it was pretty CS of the company to do that. Not my call. Put me at ease a little about him, but once you get that button pushed, the alarm does not reset for a while.

    I have 2.5 years of carrying every day at work, I have never been involved in any altercation with another coworker, or even a heated argument. If I ever get called on the carpet for carrying, my first response will be "Well, nothing has happened in the last x.x years that I have had it on me every day. Have not been involved anything even remotely close to workplace violence. What's changed? I have not broken any state or federal laws, unlike the long list of employees that have and broken policy and laws of consumption of alcohol and operation of company vehicles, where you seem to turn a blind eye to those that hit cooler on the job site, or the bar after work. They may be on their own time, but in a company vehicle, they are still representing the company, and you will find yourself liable in civil court.

    How many red hats with DUIs do we have? How many trucks have been wrecked? It's OK for them drink and put the public at risk on their way home/to their hotel, but I can't posses the means for my personal safety since neither you or the police will do that for me?

    I am one of maybe a hand full of employees with NO criminal history, let alone the number of ex-cons and felons working here. The only reason I am standing here before you is evidently because of a wardrobe malfunction and panicky coworker."

    Too much? Yeah, probably. Realistically the conversation won't go anywhere close to that, but it does not hurt to plan ahead.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    I don't blame you.

    1st - The co-worker thing is good to keep a close watch on.

    2nd - Your explaination is one that you already have said will carry no weight, your basically screwed if they find out, so don't let them and if they do, it's one of those times, I use to tell my troops in the service, "Suck it up and Press".
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    The co-worker reminded me/reinforced a point that I am not the only one disregarding that policy. The extent of those who only violate for defensive/personal safety reasons only is an unknown.

    My daydreamed discussion if caught, I'm not losing anything by pressing the point. Better than just shrugging and and saying, "OK, I'll go pack my toys and be on my way."
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    At least the disgruntled employee was 'quitting', a choice HE made. That should have him feeling a bit better than being fired...sort of.
    I wouldn't say a word, but I'd be watching my back.
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  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Read your own post again.

    From your employers perspective YOU could be considered a
    "Disgruntled" employee.
    -------
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  7. #6
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    Read your own post again.

    From your employers perspective YOU could be considered a
    "Disgruntled" employee.
    +1

    Historically, it's not the guys who tell you they're packing, it's the nutbars like Maj Hasan who simply sneak in their firearm and start shooting.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    Read your own post again.

    From your employers perspective YOU could be considered a
    "Disgruntled" employee.
    There are other factors and behaviors that typically go along with that "title".

    Poor performance reviews
    Poor quality work/producton
    Frequent insubordination
    Frequent confrontations/altercations with co-workers
    Substance abuse...

    My disregarding that one particular policy (the only one) in itself does not make me a "Disgruntled employee" Challenging that policy if caught does not either.

    Believe me, I fully understand that if I do get caught and terminated, it is nobody's fault but my own. I weighed the choice to carry at work, or abide by policy, I know the possible consequences of that decision and I accept it.

    I knew I should have deleted the last part of my OP. It's out there now, let's see where it goes.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    Read your own post again.

    From your employers perspective YOU could be considered a
    "Disgruntled" employee.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    +1

    Historically, it's not the guys who tell you they're packing, it's the nutbars like Maj Hasan who simply sneak in their firearm and start shooting.
    +2
    Who is John Galt?

    Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...

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    Member Array Griffworks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    There are other factors and behaviors that typically go along with that "title".

    Poor performance reviews
    Poor quality work/producton
    Frequent insubordination
    Frequent confrontations/altercations with co-workers
    Substance abuse...

    My disregarding that one particular policy (the only one) in itself does not make me a "Disgruntled employee" Challenging that policy if caught does not either.

    Believe me, I fully understand that if I do get caught and terminated, it is nobody's fault but my own. I weighed the choice to carry at work, or abide by policy, I know the possible consequences of that decision and I accept it.

    I knew I should have deleted the last part of my OP. It's out there now, let's see where it goes.
    Nicely said! From your posts here in this thread, as well as elsewhere on the forums, you seem to be a pretty intelligent, thoughtful, reasonable and laid back guy. I'd wager your supervisors and co-workers who know you fairly well - as well as can be expected for those with whom you only interact at The Job - think the same of you, if you're anything like what you present here.

    Heck, your written response only seems a bit on the defensive side, not necessarily what I'd consider to be aggressive in tone. I agree that packing up your stuff and saying "OK" would be the better, more mature route to go. Hopefully, tho, they'll never push the issue to the point of firing you or feeling as tho you need to quit.
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    Member Array rightdog's Avatar
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    I would have asked him if he had more work lined up. That would have made me feel better. With NV aproaching 14% in unemployment and the construction trades taking it in the butt, knowing he had work would, to me, lower any chance he had of going postal. If he sits at home steaming because he can't find work, it would seem to have a better chance to lead to something bad.
    Regarding what he said about nowadays you never know, I would not worry...that is not much different then all of us have said as a reason to carry. Of course, I was not there to see him, read his eyes and mannerisms either. But based on just the comment, I would not sweat it too much.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The co-worker reminded me/reinforced a point that I am not the only one disregarding that policy. The extent of those who only violate for defensive/personal safety reasons only is an unknown.

    My daydreamed discussion if caught, I'm not losing anything by pressing the point. Better than just shrugging and and saying, "OK, I'll go pack my toys and be on my way."
    I understand the point you made, but you also pointed out that he might be on a short fuse. That was my concern for you.

    2nd - Understood, that's what I mean't, not packing it in, just say hey I have it for protection, there is no written policy, what now type of scenario.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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    Member Array maddog3241's Avatar
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    At my place of employment I am on the Security Response Team. Big whop... We have a no weapons policy, we are also a publishing company that writes books about religous topics. We are world wide.

    A few years ago they did a book about Islam and christianity, well needless to say, I too ignore the policy. I am about 75 feet from the main door, where anything could go down. I keep my 9mm in a steel box with a lock on it under my desk. If the alarm goes off, it is a couple of seconds for me to grab it and go..

    I am not the only one on the team that does this. If it comes down to it, I would rather lose my job, than my life. Stay safe, carry always...

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    Member Array Blownsvt's Avatar
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    I found this post to be a little hypocritical. You are like the pot calling the kettle black. You sound as though you are saying it is fine for you to carry everyday at work but no one else should. People who carry come in all different personalities and shapes/sizes. I don't get alarmed jsut because I know someone else around me also carries. If anything I feel a little safer knowing if something does happen at least I am not alone.
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    Member Array UnklFungus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blownsvt View Post
    I found this post to be a little hypocritical. You are like the pot calling the kettle black. You sound as though you are saying it is fine for you to carry everyday at work but no one else should. People who carry come in all different personalities and shapes/sizes. I don't get alarmed jsut because I know someone else around me also carries. If anything I feel a little safer knowing if something does happen at least I am not alone.
    I too feel this way. Not to be mean nor insulting to the OP, but, from a precursory glance, to me, this can be taken that way.
    That said, I do understand your point. He may very well be just another guy that enjoys life enough to be prepared.
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus
    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

  16. #15
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    He already made his choice to leave instead of workplace violence, don't worry about it.

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