wow, what kind of company is this?
This is a discussion on Bad: New Company Policy within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I work for a service industry where the general public comes and goes all day long and it is posted with no weapons signs. It ...
I work for a service industry where the general public comes and goes all day long and it is posted with no weapons signs. It has been this way for years and I've just locked my CCW in the car. They have also had no weapons policies for employees for years, and again, no problem locking it in the car.
New problem. The large national parent company has pushed out policies to all facilities requiring implementation that says employees cannot have weapons in their cars and they reserve the right to search an employees car in the parking lot and fire them if they have a weapon in the car or if they refuse to let them search.
I have a major issue with this policy for many reasons. In accordance with state law, my car is my personal property and I have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Unfortunately, Virginia is an at-will state and a person can be fired for any or no reason. The 4th Amendment does not apply to private employers, just government.
There is a ray of hope!!! The policy says the individual facility leadership can make exceptions. I've talked with my boss (who has gone shooting with me before) and he agrees with my concerns but is hesitant to rock the boat. When he asked how to be fair in making objective exceptions, I suggested a blanket exception (not specifically individual exceptions) that says if you have a valid CHP, you are granted an exception to the rule of not being able to lock it in your car since you have passed background checks, etc. That seemed to be somewhat appealing. I think it will work out eventually since even he said probably 90% of our employees keep guns locked in their cars.
I did find one aspect of federal law that may also help. While an employer may be able to search your personal property on their property (I haven't determined the absolute legality of that yet), there is a federal law that states an employer has absolutely no right to open or read your personal mail (snail mail that may be in your car). I'm thinking about getting a USPS small box and sending it to myself. Put some old mail in it and some packing material and place my CCW in the box locked in my trunk. Even if I consent to a search, they would be breaking federal law to look inside my personal snail mail. Of course, they could still fire a person for no reason.
Another disturbing policy on social media. If you engage in social media networks on your own personal computer on your own time in the privacy of your own home and post things contrary to the company image (which their recent policies make me believe they don't care for guns) then you can be fired. This is another disturbing issue to me. If they are able to identify my membership and posts here on my own time (this site is blocked on company computers) and they don't like guns, then they can fire me. Of course, at-will state, they can fire me for no reason anyway. Go figure. Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming rate, if not by government by our employers.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
wow, what kind of company is this?
<i>-- Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming rate, if not by government by our employers.--</i>
--"Rights" are only protected from government interference, and private employers may very well (whether we agree with them or not) impose restrictions on speech, etc.,(within the confines of labor and civil-rights laws) on company time and property---
Any search they were to do on your car would likely only be 1) upon some sort of complaint/concern; 2) cursory.
If you have the talent what about creating a hideaway spot inside the car's interior?
Just keep in mind that it is probably acceptable for the employer to not allow you on site is you have a box they cannot search. They may not be able to search it, but they may not have to let you pass either.
Welcome to my world...I work for a company supporting DoD...in a huge federal facility...
I can't have a weapon...can't keep one in the car...so I drive to and from work without...
"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
For example, they may not let you smoke at work, or they may even discourage smoking. They shouldn't go after you for raving about a great cigar you had last weekend. However, as you noted, at-will means at-will.
These policies come down from corporate lawyers trying to protect the corporation. It's no about you, but they can affect you.
If your company expects you to answerr your cell phone after work hours, or respond to emergency requests from management after your normal work hours, they don't have much to say about when and how you use social networking. If you are a "shift" type worker, than these policies have more weight.
Last edited by MadMac; June 8th, 2010 at 09:35 AM.
With some exceptions, here in FL employers cannot prohibit employees from leaving guns locked in cars on company property. The exceptions are companies performing high security gov't contracts and such.
Unfortunately, in these economic times, companies know they have us by the short hairs, as to the job market.
Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large.
Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
Any possibility of parking on a nearby public street and avoiding the issue altogether? I realize that this may or may not be a viable option and your work location. Just an idea.
Is the parking lot a secured lot, i.e. not open to public parking? If so, then they have no legal ground to stand on, especially if they do not forbid the general public from packing weapons in their car. You can demand they have their cars searched as well. Then see how long they get away with that kind of crap as it affects their business......
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
"It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519
I think it was already aforementioned, anyway to park across the street or remotely and walk in? Do they search you while at work? (Concealed means concealed!) Good luck, and keep us updated! I'm sorry to hear this! In my line of work, they can't have a 'no weapons policy' as the tools we need to use to get the job done could be effective weapons!
I have a Glock 19 I keep at home, but I have recently applied for my CCW, and expect to receive it any day now. Once I get my CCW, I would like to carry whenever I can. However, since I cannot even store a weapon in my car, I will not be able to carry at all during the 20 mile drive to work or back to home. While I feel perfectly safe at work and in the parking lot at work, there are places in between where I would feel much safer if I were able to have my weapon with me.
In the 2 years that I have worked at this company I have only seen a few random "bag checks" performed, and that was inside the main gates, not in the parking lot. I have yet to see or hear of anyone actually having their vehicle searched. However, I still do not want to risk anything, and will not be keeping my weapon in my car.
Sure they do. There is no law that they have to have the same rules for customers/clients as they do for employees. You can demand whatever you want until you are blue in the face, they have no reason to comply.Is the parking lot a secured lot, i.e. not open to public parking? If so, then they have no legal ground to stand on, especially if they do not forbid the general public from packing weapons in their car. You can demand they have their cars searched as well.
Does everyone drive to work?
My nephew works for a company that tries to pull the same stunt. He parks his car across the street and walks in. As far as they know, he doesn't even have a car. He doesn't keep a gun in it because it's a softtop, but he has issues with his employer searching his car. He doesn't think it's right.
-- Luck favors the well prepared.