Defensive Carry banner

Bad: New Company Policy

4K views 42 replies 31 participants last post by  Griffworks 
#1 ·
I work for a service industry where the general public comes and goes all day long and it is posted with no weapons signs. It has been this way for years and I've just locked my CCW in the car. They have also had no weapons policies for employees for years, and again, no problem locking it in the car.

New problem. The large national parent company has pushed out policies to all facilities requiring implementation that says employees cannot have weapons in their cars and they reserve the right to search an employees car in the parking lot and fire them if they have a weapon in the car or if they refuse to let them search.

I have a major issue with this policy for many reasons. In accordance with state law, my car is my personal property and I have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Unfortunately, Virginia is an at-will state and a person can be fired for any or no reason. The 4th Amendment does not apply to private employers, just government.

There is a ray of hope!!! The policy says the individual facility leadership can make exceptions. I've talked with my boss (who has gone shooting with me before) and he agrees with my concerns but is hesitant to rock the boat. When he asked how to be fair in making objective exceptions, I suggested a blanket exception (not specifically individual exceptions) that says if you have a valid CHP, you are granted an exception to the rule of not being able to lock it in your car since you have passed background checks, etc. That seemed to be somewhat appealing. I think it will work out eventually since even he said probably 90% of our employees keep guns locked in their cars.

I did find one aspect of federal law that may also help. While an employer may be able to search your personal property on their property (I haven't determined the absolute legality of that yet), there is a federal law that states an employer has absolutely no right to open or read your personal mail (snail mail that may be in your car). I'm thinking about getting a USPS small box and sending it to myself. Put some old mail in it and some packing material and place my CCW in the box locked in my trunk. Even if I consent to a search, they would be breaking federal law to look inside my personal snail mail. Of course, they could still fire a person for no reason.

Another disturbing policy on social media. If you engage in social media networks on your own personal computer on your own time in the privacy of your own home and post things contrary to the company image (which their recent policies make me believe they don't care for guns) then you can be fired. This is another disturbing issue to me. If they are able to identify my membership and posts here on my own time (this site is blocked on company computers) and they don't like guns, then they can fire me. Of course, at-will state, they can fire me for no reason anyway. Go figure. Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming rate, if not by government by our employers.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
--rights--

<i>-- Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming rate, if not by government by our employers.--</i>

--"Rights" are only protected from government interference, and private employers may very well (whether we agree with them or not) impose restrictions on speech, etc.,(within the confines of labor and civil-rights laws) on company time and property---
 
#6 ·
<i>-- Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming rate, if not by government by our employers.--</i>

--"Rights" are only protected from government interference, and private employers may very well (whether we agree with them or not) impose restrictions on speech, etc.,(within the confines of labor and civil-rights laws) on company time and property---
The problem is it is now infringing on my personal time on my property (with the social media network policy).
 
#4 ·
Any search they were to do on your car would likely only be 1) upon some sort of complaint/concern; 2) cursory.

If you have the talent what about creating a hideaway spot inside the car's interior?

Just keep in mind that it is probably acceptable for the employer to not allow you on site is you have a box they cannot search. They may not be able to search it, but they may not have to let you pass either.
 
#5 ·
Welcome to my world...I work for a company supporting DoD...in a huge federal facility...

I can't have a weapon...can't keep one in the car...so I drive to and from work without...
 
#19 ·
Yeppers. I'm AD USAF and it kinda sux that we can't at least lock it in the car. I have an almost 30 mile drive, one way, from home to work. Most of it is on highways, but that doesn't mean I might not have to make the occasional stop or emergency detour. I'm hoping - yeah, a pipe dream - that perhaps DoD will change this policy for at least AD personnel and DoD Civilians.

In the meantime, I've been drafting up a letter to my Congressman and Senator letting them know my thoughts on these issues.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Another disturbing policy on social media. If you engage in social media networks on your own personal computer on your own time in the privacy of your own home and post things contrary to the company image (which their recent policies make me believe they don't care for guns) then you can be fired. This is another disturbing issue to me. If they are able to identify my membership and posts here on my own time (this site is blocked on company computers) and they don't like guns, then they can fire me. Of course, at-will state, they can fire me for no reason anyway. Go figure. Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming rate, if not by government by our employers.
I believe what they are trying to enforce is the posting of negative commentary about the company. Social media has become a problem for many organizations as they try to control what defamatory items people can post. I doubt they could/would make a stink over a legal hobby.

For example, they may not let you smoke at work, or they may even discourage smoking. They shouldn't go after you for raving about a great cigar you had last weekend. However, as you noted, at-will means at-will.

These policies come down from corporate lawyers trying to protect the corporation. It's no about you, but they can affect you.

If your company expects you to answerr your cell phone after work hours, or respond to emergency requests from management after your normal work hours, they don't have much to say about when and how you use social networking. If you are a "shift" type worker, than these policies have more weight.
 
#8 ·
With some exceptions, here in FL employers cannot prohibit employees from leaving guns locked in cars on company property. The exceptions are companies performing high security gov't contracts and such.

Unfortunately, in these economic times, companies know they have us by the short hairs, as to the job market.
 
#13 ·
With some exceptions, here in FL employers cannot prohibit employees from leaving guns locked in cars on company property. The exceptions are companies performing high security gov't contracts and such.
This is the position I am in. I live in Florida and work at one of these companies. The parking lot is closed to the public, and there are signs posted banning any weapons on property, including the parking lot. The signs also state that all persons and vehicles are open to being searched at any time.

I have a Glock 19 I keep at home, but I have recently applied for my CCW, and expect to receive it any day now. Once I get my CCW, I would like to carry whenever I can. However, since I cannot even store a weapon in my car, I will not be able to carry at all during the 20 mile drive to work or back to home. While I feel perfectly safe at work and in the parking lot at work, there are places in between where I would feel much safer if I were able to have my weapon with me.

In the 2 years that I have worked at this company I have only seen a few random "bag checks" performed, and that was inside the main gates, not in the parking lot. I have yet to see or hear of anyone actually having their vehicle searched. However, I still do not want to risk anything, and will not be keeping my weapon in my car.
 
#11 ·
+1 for just not being on/in their parking lot. Their intention is pretty clear; unless your manager is more than "middle mgm't" I doubt his ability to arrange an exception.

Real bummer . . . sounds like you got to the future before me.
 
#10 ·
Is the parking lot a secured lot, i.e. not open to public parking? If so, then they have no legal ground to stand on, especially if they do not forbid the general public from packing weapons in their car. You can demand they have their cars searched as well. Then see how long they get away with that kind of crap as it affects their business......
 
#12 ·
I think it was already aforementioned, anyway to park across the street or remotely and walk in? Do they search you while at work? (Concealed means concealed!) Good luck, and keep us updated! I'm sorry to hear this! In my line of work, they can't have a 'no weapons policy' as the tools we need to use to get the job done could be effective weapons!
 
#14 ·
Is the parking lot a secured lot, i.e. not open to public parking? If so, then they have no legal ground to stand on, especially if they do not forbid the general public from packing weapons in their car. You can demand they have their cars searched as well.
Sure they do. There is no law that they have to have the same rules for customers/clients as they do for employees. You can demand whatever you want until you are blue in the face, they have no reason to comply.
 
#15 ·
Does everyone drive to work?

My nephew works for a company that tries to pull the same stunt. He parks his car across the street and walks in. As far as they know, he doesn't even have a car. He doesn't keep a gun in it because it's a softtop, but he has issues with his employer searching his car. He doesn't think it's right.
 
#16 ·
Sounds like a pretty tough position to be in. I would be looking for somewhere not so obvious in my car that I could hide a pistol.
Or you can just get an empty tampon box, put the gun in it, and toss it in the back. No guy from the office will ever look in there.
 
#17 ·
My company's policy is almost the same, I got a smart carry and choose to not abide by the policy (it is not illegal here in Oregon unless I am asked to leave). What they don't know wont hurt them, and if they choose to search my car, they wont find anything. I plan to refuse if they request to search my person.
 
#18 ·
If possible park on a public street. My guess is it's not possible. If it is, get a lockable gun safe for the car.

Workplace violence is percieved (by many HR depts) to be increasing... this is one reason many corp's are doing this (restricting/banning guns on site).

Good luck. Of course, your boss knows you like guns, if it's his job or yours, he'll search your car and you'll be unemployed (with reason, meaning the possibility of no unemployment)
 
#20 ·
You are correct about HRs perceptions...but let me take it a step further...

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I work for a company that supports DoD on a huge federal installation...so federal law prevents me from carrying even in my car in the parking lot...

But my company site manager just returned from some management training with this gem...

Under new company HR guidance, even discussing weapons...or talking about going to the shooting range...can be considered "creating a hostile work environment"...

Lucky for me my site manager is retired military like myself, and owns several weapons including a sweet 1911...so he won't turn me in...and the military folks I work with are very much into weapons and firing ranges...so no issues there...

But between fear of workplace violence...and just pure Political Correctness...it's getting pretty hard for a honest citizen to keep a good paying job without looking over your shoulder and watching what you say...
 
#22 ·
Did a class project profiling workplace violence and proposing the argument that concealed permit holders be allowed to carry. I used the Valiant, Oklahoma weyerhauser case as one of my examples. Personally, I park on the street when I attend school as to not violate the no firearms on campus laws in NC. I rather do that then take my chances of going unarmed when I leave and am en route to home or going somewhere else. And at work I just leave it in my truck, what they don't know won't hurt them. Only time I go completely unarmed is when I'm on my motorcycle, and thats because it is a sportbike with no legitimate storage space. At school at least. At work...concealed is concealed. Its private property so the worst they can do is fire me. I can find another part time job if it comes down to it. You probably don't have that same option I'm guessing. School...ehh yea thats grounds for criminal charges.
 
#23 ·
You can always move to Oklahoma, our law actually says employers cannot keep you keeping your weapon in your locked car in an area used for parking.
 
#24 ·
Another disturbing policy on social media. If you engage in social media networks on your own personal computer on your own time in the privacy of your own home and post things contrary to the company image (which their recent policies make me believe they don't care for guns) then you can be fired. This is another disturbing issue to me. If they are able to identify my membership and posts here on my own time (this site is blocked on company computers) and they don't like guns, then they can fire me. Of course, at-will state, they can fire me for no reason anyway. Go figure. Our rights are being whittled away at an alarming rate, if not by government by our employers.
So, they're trying to tell you how to live and how to think?

Outrageous.
 
#29 ·
Similar policy at my workplace, including banning weapons in vehicles. However we share the parking lot with the building next to us, so I just park closer to 'their side' to avoid this issue. EDC stays locked in the vehicle during the work day.

As far as discussing firearms or shooting in the workplace, there are only a couple of people I talk about such things with at work. I can easily imagine HR getting in the middle of a discussion if I were to mention guns to the wrong person here. Did I mention I work close to Boulder? You do the math.
 
#31 ·
Update: GOOD NEWS!!!

I e-mailed the concern to the gentleman at our corporate office who is responsible for the safety and security program for the whole company and I received in writing today from him that "storing your weapon in your car while you are at work is ok." :congrats: Since there are many states involved, perhaps it is impossible to write an all encompassing policy but at least they provide for an exception for authorization in writing...which we easily received today with no problem. My guess is a lot of folks didn't read the policy, but I did talk with an HR director at another facility today and he has the same concerns (he is a hunter and a CHP holder as well). I'm sure there will be more questions raised, but at least there is no hassle if or when it is. I guess I'm just a stickler for reading every policy in detail...good thing. Thanks for all of your time, suggestions, and comments. Luckily it has worked out with no problem. Thanks to all of you, and to DC for providing me the support and confidence to professionally address these concerns and have a positive result. :bier:
 
#43 ·
I e-mailed the concern to the gentleman at our corporate office who is responsible for the safety and security program for the whole company and I received in writing today from him that "storing your weapon in your car while you are at work is ok." :congrats:

>SNIPPERINO!<
Awesome news! Congrat's on the win!

Now, if we just convince DoD to allow a similar policy which would let CHL Holders at least bring their handguns on-base but keep them locked in the vee-hickle. :scruntiny:
 
#34 ·
+1. I'm going to make copies of the policy and the e-mail and keep one at home and one in my car with my weapon. I'm also going to give copies to my close friends at work who are also in the same boat so they'll be covered if something comes up for one of them if I'm not there.
 
#33 ·
Have you thought about a lockable case for the gun when left in the car. What they don't see doesn't hurt them.
 
#36 ·
I don't need it now, but I've got a better idea. It is actually against federal law for them to search your personal USPS mail. If you put it in a USPS postmarked box addressed to you (you can mail the empty box to yourself with no return address), then they are prohibited from looking inside and can't force you to open it for them. Then lock that in your box and watch their face when you tell them if they touch your personal USPS mail it is a federal crime. A little research is very valuable.
 
#38 ·
Had exactly the same situation where I worked. A SUPER pain. I hated that when I ran errands on the way home, I ran into situations where I felt very unprotected.

Then the State passed a law that any CC licensee could lock guns in their cars on their employers property and was not against the law.... well, no help, they could still fire you for violating the Company Policy.

Now, I can do it.... as I retired, so I"m no longer an employee when I go there.

Glad it worked out well for you.
 
#39 ·
Technically, I am not supposed to have a gun in my car at any time, at work or not, being I'm a field tech, and carry company supplied tools and parts in the car. Plus with never knowing each day if i'll be going to a school, hospital, govt office etc, I end up spending the workday without a gun. But with a very heavy 18 inch long #2 phillips. :D
 
#42 ·
I was suggesting that inside of your lockbox you could have your firearm inside of a USPS postmarked package. That would prevent theft, but if required to let them search and open the lockbox, they would not be able to force you to let them inspect your mail.

Yes, this is an at-will state. An employer can end employment for any or no reason. I'm glad that I received the written authorization. No issue now.

Apparently, depending on your state, an employer may be able to search your property because it is located on their property. I'm not sure who decided their property rights trump yours. The 4th amendment only applies to government entities / public entities, not private entities or private property owners.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top