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SIXTO.
With all that said, I think we all agree that it would have been better off left alone for all parties involved.
Agreed.
This is a discussion on LEO encounter/motor accident within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; SIXTO. With all that said, I think we all agree that it would have been better off left alone for all parties involved. Agreed....
SIXTO.
With all that said, I think we all agree that it would have been better off left alone for all parties involved.
Agreed.
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Does no one else see a problem with this?Originally Posted by INccwchris
I agree with a previous poster in not wanting to bust the OP's chops, but why disarm yourself in a parking lot while waiting for a policeman to arrive?
Who knows how long it will be before the officer arrives? If it turns out to be a really bad day you may well need the weapon before anyone shows up.
IMO a better response to their 'request' to disarm would be to politely decline and ask them (again) to inform the officer that the permit holder will be armed when he arrives.
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.
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The Louisiana cop says that he has [apparently] frequently removed the slides from the frames of firearms during stops.
He then backpedals, claiming that he only does this with "criminals" or some such. But if they're "criminals" why did he give the guns back? Why did he not ARREST them? Being a felon in possession of a firearm is a crime EVERYWHERE that I know of. If there was a basis for disassembling THEIR firearms, but not confiscating them, and moreover arresting those possessing them, how would those "criteria" NOT apply to anyone else? Given the recent revelations regarding the events on the Danziger bridge after Katrina, I have my suspicions.
I go by the letter of the law, because anything else is too dangerous. I suspect that eventually that LEO is going to disassemble the wrong person's firearm and find himself industriously sawing away at the tree side of a mighty weak limb.
Over the top and completely unnecessary by the officer. You are lawful to carry in your state and under recent federal guidelines since there is no PC for you being suspected of committing a crime or being placed under arrest then no search is justified. This was not a Terry Stop. Recent supreme court dicisions also state that if you are arrested and handcuffed then you no longer present a threat and a search should now be done with a warrant. The times they are a changing.
"Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".
"A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".
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That's why I'm a letter of the law man.
If I'm otherwise obeying the law, no tangible good can come from me doing things in an LEO encounter not required by the law.
If I'm not otherwise obeying the law, doing things not required by the law SHOULDN'T benefit me.
I've been in a vehicle pulled over for "weaving" which clearly was not. If there's no requirement to notify, there's ZERO benefit to me from doing so. Is the LEO going to not give me a ticket for NOT weaving because I unnecessarily notified? If I don't notify, is he going to give me a ticket for something he KNOWS I didn't do?
I think much of this is a matter of definition. I didn't go back and re-read every post there with great detail. My understanding he removed the slide on some stops where he felt extra uneasy. He may have referred to those folks that made him feel uneasy as "scumbags". I'm pretty sure had he stopped a bona fide felon with a gun he'd arrested him.
BTW I believe there are some cases where a felon can legally reclaim his right to possess a gun. I'm not an expert in that dept but I believe it can be done. I've never been a felon so I have no experience with that.
I supposes someone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor, could be labeled as a "criminal", but still be lawful to own a gun?
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME.
Quoted from the OP:
"After he got both licenses and registrations he went to the door of my truck and told me to unlock it. I did so and he retrieved my firearm."
[My Bold]
Question of contention:
1. Did the OP unlock the vehicle willing and agreeably at the LEO's request?
Or
2. Did the OP unlock the vehicle because he felt the LEO ordered him to and the OP assumed he had to comply?
The OP doesn't state whether he agreed to unlock the truck, but I feel the OP's state of mind bears a large part as to whether or not this was a reasonable action on the LEO's part.
I would not more expect an LEO at my front door to enter and "secure" my firearms by any means for anything other that a felony incident. I would expect the same consideration with my vehicle. A parking lot fender-bender is not grounds for an LEO to retrieve a weapon from a locked vehicle for "his safety."
Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone - 1978. Oh, to be young again...
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
Wow, if my little popcorn icon worked thats all it would show.
To all law enforcement thank you for your service, it is greatly appreciated and you guys deal with some scumbags.
If you stop please don't take my gun apart, I don't mind you dropping the mag and clearing it but please leave the slide on. Its a little much. Plus your going to have a hard time pulling me over for speeding on my pony. LOL
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I'd definitely file a complaint w/the local LEO's chain of command. Securing the firearm for the duration of the time w/you is one thing, but field stripping is over-the-top. Especially since he wasn't doing any of that in accordance w/his departments policies or regulations as he self-admitted.
Arkansas Concealed Carry Instructor #12-751
If guns kill people, then:
Pincels miss spel werds;
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It sounds like that officer was just going out of his way to be a jerk because he doesn't like the idea of civilians being able to have guns.
I think the moral of this story is that if you get into an accident, don't tell the dispatcher that you have a weapon (you aren't required to). Store the weapon in your trunk before the officer arrives and then you have no legal obligation to inform (even in a must-inform state).
I would be pissed off too.
"In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK
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What's the LEGAL definition of a "scumbag"?
I'll bet that even Louisiana, under Le Code Napoleon, doesn't LEGALLY define a "scumbag".
Is it somebody with gang tattoos, but NO felony convictions?
Is it somebody with body piercings?
Is it somebody with a purple mohawk?
Is it somebody with a bumpersticker for the "wrong" political candidate?
Is it somebody with an 82nd Airborne Division "These colors never run!" bumpersticker?
Is it somebody who doesn't have an FOP sticker?
Is it somebody holding hands with another man?
Is it somebody wearing a yarmulka?
When LEOs strike out on their own without reference to the law, things go downhill FAST.
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People in Ohio mostly just shrug off temporary custody of the firearm, even unloading of it.
Disassemble it and you're looking for and probably going to find trouble.
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I get a kick out of threads like this. Did the officer need to remove the gun, probably not. Did he need to field strip the gun, probably not.
Was any harm done by either of those actions, not from what I have read. As far as being some high dollar pistol that got scratched, well if it was that high dollar and there was worry about being scratched, it probably wouldn't be a daily carry piece.
Did the OP need to tell the cops about the gun, apparently not in his state. Did the OP need to call the police about the parking lot accident, doesn't sound like it since everyone was being nice to one another.
This is one of those things that folks get bent out of shape about because they have done something that either requires them, or they choose to get involved with authorities, and then they don't like the results, when actually no harm was done other than to egos.
Sorry about your troubles, but had you not hit a parked car, and called the police, you would not have a reason to gripe at anyone. I can only assume it took all of about 30 seconds to put your gun back together and go about your business. The cop spent how much time filling out paperwork?
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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I checked with IMPD, they said it was up to the officers discretion to decide how to handle it. I also asked if my firearm is damaged, what happens then, and he immediatley asked if i wanted to file a complaint. I am thinking about filing one, just because i had a problem with him field stripping my weapon. Had it been a Glock, no problem. but he probably disassembled my XDM incorrectly because it breaks down with two steps differently than a Glock. So i will probably file a complaint. Also, I did unlock the vehicle when he told me to because i didnt feel like taking more of my time and saying no get a warrent if u want in there
update and edit,
i did file a complaint, just for him field stripping my weapon, I feel that was excessive, but i am going to make sure to let them know he was very professional, and did his job diliagently. I don't want him punished or fired, just corrected.
"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."
Probably won't cut it for the complaint.
Is it damaged or not?
"Just blame Sixto"
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