Threatening dogs

This is a discussion on Threatening dogs within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rightdog Nope. If I lost a fight I lose a fight. It's happened. And I never shot someone over it. Obviously you ...

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Thread: Threatening dogs

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightdog View Post
    Nope. If I lost a fight I lose a fight. It's happened. And I never shot someone over it. Obviously you have never lost a fight. If you have, post the obit of the guy who was winning.
    Sometimes if you "lose a fight", you lose your LIFE.

    I don't know how old you are, but regardless of your chronological age, you don't sound very mature to me, especially if you find yourself in a lot of "fights". If you do, I question whether your level of maturity warrants owning a firearm.

    I haven't been in a "fight" since I was in college ROTC.

    If I'm in a physical altercation, it's because somebody committed an unprovoked attack on me.

    You're right, in the situations in which you apparently find yourself, you shouldn't use a gun. In fact, I'd recommend that you not even carry one... at least until you grow up some. At least that way, if you get in a "fight", somebody else who shouldn't have a firearm, won't end up with yours.

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  3. #47
    Member Array OhioPx4Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Dog owners seem to feel that it's OK for a dog to charge you as long as he doesn't bite. After all, he is just doing his job.
    The dog owners appear to be oblivious to the dangers. Heck,why should they worry, the dog is never threatening to the owner and as long as he threatens other strangers that's considered a good thing.
    Wow! What an over-generalization!

    I'm a dog owner and I would be mortified if my dog ever "charged" at anyone and I certainly wouldn't think that it was okay! I would be apologizing profusely! I believe most dog owners are responsible and would not think a charging, growling dog was okay.

    I was a paper boy from the time I was 7 till the time I was 16 years old. I was "attacked" quite a few times and was able to repel the attack with a well placed kick or hit with a folded paper. I know what it is like to be scared because of a dog acting vicious. One time when I was about 10 years old I had a huge dog that I thought was vicious put both paws on my shoulders and I was looking him square in the eyes! I know what it is like to be scared!

    I am very aware of the lame statements of a few bad dog owners who say "Oh, don't worry, he doesn't bite!" I've been collecting money for the paper and was pinned to the door by a growling dog while the owner went to get the money! Thankfully in my 46 years this has been the exception and not the rule. My dog is always under control and never lose around strangers unless they give the okay. Most people like dogs and just say to let him lose and they play with him. By the way, he is a 100 lb black lab.

    I walk my dog between 3 and 5 miles every night along several different treks. I have only had one problem in the 7 years I've had my dog. My dog is such a baby he was hiding behind me while the dog was inches from me growling and barking in an apparent vicious way. I suppose I would have been within my rights to shoot the dog. For me, it would be an absolute last resort! I guess with my many years of experience with dogs, I know that growling, barking and charging are not necessarily signs of being bitten unlike the analogy of a man coming at you with a knife. Humans have intent and dogs do not! By giving strong voice commands I was able to continue to back away and finally get away from the dog's "territory" at which time he went back to his house. I believe in Ohio we still have the duty to retreat when not in our homes or cars. I've never been bitten and don't ever plan to be. If need be I would shoot the dog but it wouldn't be just because the dog charges me.

    I understand that the OP is a bleeder and that would definitely influence my decision and I would probably shoot quicker if I was in that circumstance. It still wouldn't be a shoot first and ask questions later mentality and I certainly wouldn't paint all dog owners in such a bad light.

    MHO
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  4. #48
    Member Array Chirpy72's Avatar
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    Somewhat off topic, but last week I was walking my dog ( who was ill and going into surgery that morning ) when we came face-to-face with a big javelina. Javelinas are known to HATE dogs and often times will charge dogs ( and their owners ). The pig sprayed some of it's musk and made agressive movements ( kicking stones, squaring off with us ). I slowly dragged my pup back and we backed out of there ... and then ran !

    It got me thinking if needed what would the outcome have been if I needed to shoot the javelina? I don't live in a rural area and I wonder how the police would handle this since I'm sure self defense shootings against wild peccaries is pretty rare.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I would think that self defense against a "wild" animal would be at least as, if not more justified than against a domestic one.

  6. #50
    Member Array rightdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Sometimes if you "lose a fight", you lose your LIFE.

    I don't know how old you are, but regardless of your chronological age, you don't sound very mature to me, especially if you find yourself in a lot of "fights". If you do, I question whether your level of maturity warrants owning a firearm.

    I haven't been in a "fight" since I was in college ROTC.

    If I'm in a physical altercation, it's because somebody committed an unprovoked attack on me.

    You're right, in the situations in which you apparently find yourself, you shouldn't use a gun. In fact, I'd recommend that you not even carry one... at least until you grow up some. At least that way, if you get in a "fight", somebody else who shouldn't have a firearm, won't end up with yours.
    Not sure what provoked the emotional attack. I am 45. Last fight was in my teens. Sorry you decided I get in fights all the time. While I admit I answered the post too quickly (at work) I would say if I was mugged, I might well feel endangered and use lethal force. However, my original post said "in a fight" which to a mature person means just that, a fight. And I stand on that opinion.

    Sorry you choose to judge based on made up info. I could make up stuff about you and then criticize you for it, but since I am immature, I will have to wait until I grow up like you, my new hero.

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightdog View Post
    Not sure what provoked the emotional attack. I am 45. Last fight was in my teens. Sorry you decided I get in fights all the time. While I admit I answered the post too quickly (at work) I would say if I was mugged, I might well feel endangered and use lethal force. However, my original post said "in a fight" which to a mature person means just that, a fight. And I stand on that opinion.

    Sorry you choose to judge based on made up info. I could make up stuff about you and then criticize you for it, but since I am immature, I will have to wait until I grow up like you, my new hero.
    If you don't get into "fights", one wonders why you even raised the subject.

    I didn't discuss what I do in rhino attacks, since I've never been in one and don't expect to in Ohio. If somebody talks about what they do in "fights", the logical inference is that they participate in them.

    At my stage of life the idea of being in a non-defensive physical fight is as alien to me as biting the head off of a bat.

  8. #52
    Member Array Skippys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    ....I will give the dog my support arm and proceed to gut it. -Biker
    Amen. On my morning constitutionals I hand carry a folding knife that I can open very quickly with one hand if a neighbor's dog is out for his morning pee and decides a bite from my calf would be his breakfast.

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippys View Post
    Amen. On my morning constitutionals I hand carry a folding knife that I can open very quickly with one hand if a neighbor's dog is out for his morning pee and decides a bite from my calf would be his breakfast.
    Just remember if a dog gets one of your arteries in your arm or leg you could bleed out very quickly.

    YouTube - Pitbull attacks owner 24 hours after adoption

  10. #54
    Member Array rightdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    If you don't get into "fights", one wonders why you even raised the subject.

    I didn't discuss what I do in rhino attacks, since I've never been in one and don't expect to in Ohio. If somebody talks about what they do in "fights", the logical inference is that they participate in them.

    At my stage of life the idea of being in a non-defensive physical fight is as alien to me as biting the head off of a bat.
    Because the whole point was that I would not use lethal force unless my life was in danger and I would not shoot a man for beating me up any more than I would shoot a dog because of a threat. If I honestly thought a dog was putting my life at danger, yes, I would kill it. However, I am around dogs all the time and have had many confrontations (don't read into that, now. I am not infering I start fights with other people's dogs.) I have two medium size dogs I walk and they are laid back but other dogs are sometimes not. Still, I have somehow managed to never kill, or even try to kill a dog. Nor have I been hurt or my dogs hurt, because I know how to deal with those situations.

    The fighting analogy was just that. It was a point I was making. Since I don't know you I take your replies at face value and would never jump to conclusions. However, I also recognize that this is a problem with internet boards. We are limited on time and space and sometimes cannot explain to people whom we don't know what we could easily explain in 30 seconds to our friends.

  11. #55
    Member Array PaxMentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightdog View Post
    Not sure what provoked the emotional attack. I am 45. Last fight was in my teens. Sorry you decided I get in fights all the time. While I admit I answered the post too quickly (at work) I would say if I was mugged, I might well feel endangered and use lethal force. However, my original post said "in a fight" which to a mature person means just that, a fight. And I stand on that opinion.

    Sorry you choose to judge based on made up info. I could make up stuff about you and then criticize you for it, but since I am immature, I will have to wait until I grow up like you, my new hero.
    In fairness, your initial post did seem to indicate that you were one who engaged in "fights" and somehow felt it unsporting to shoot the "winner".

    Nobody else here had mentioned "fights", the subject was being attacked. "A "fight" is normally a "joint project" so to speak...not an attack.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

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  12. #56
    Member Array rightdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    In fairness, your initial post did seem to indicate that you were one who engaged in "fights" and somehow felt it unsporting to shoot the "winner".

    Nobody else here had mentioned "fights", the subject was being attacked. "A "fight" is normally a "joint project" so to speak...not an attack.
    Because I have engaged in fights. As most people on this board have. As I stated in my last post, which it appears I was writing as you wrote yours,so you probably did not see it, my last one was in my teens. Jeez, ok everyone, here it is. 5 fights, 3-2 is my record although one person would say 2-3. One was up for debate. And yes, I would have thought it worse than "unsporting to shoot the winner." I would have thought it murder.

  13. #57
    Member Array chiefrcd's Avatar
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    I too am on blood thinners and have had multiple surgeries that would currently leave me at the mercy of a large aggressive dog or dogs. I walk every day with a very sturdy metal walking stick and a Para.45 LDA CCW with CTG. I'll use which ever I need to when the time arises.
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Would a reasonable man believe that a man running at him with a knife believe that the man would stop and just cuss him out. Not likely. I view the dog in that same light. With proper articulation of your condition and the circumstances you should be on solid ground.

    As to the OC further angering a dog, it is probably unlikely, but not impossible.

    As to the shooting you cited, the problem I see is that she shot the dog after her and her children were safely inside the house.
    That is a very good argument to be made. I for one will remember that.

    Also, as in the case of the little girls with the dogs on a leash. The dog has to be under their control. If the dog breaks away and they lose control of the dog, then it might as well have not been on a leash in the first place. So, you're on solid ground there as well.

    One other argument I would use is this. And there are several documented cases of this happening. Especially with the breeds of Rottweiler and Pit Bulls. Often times, the very first attack from a dog of these breeds it ends up being a fatal attack. It has happened here in Missouri, and in our neighboring State of Kansas in the not too distant past. On at least both of those occasions, the owners were saying their dog had never attacked anyone before. Well, that's of little condolence for the victim, now isn't it?

    You can not afford to wait until the dog actually bites you in order to respond. The very first time could be an event where you are crippled for life or horribly mauled with permanent injuries if you even survive the mauling. Even in a non-fatal attack, large breed dogs can easily cause permanent nerve damage from their bites leaving people with limited use of an arm or hand, or a permanent limp. As a paramedic, I have personally seen more than a few dog attacks where the injuries were significant and permanent. Also when biting someone around the face and head, more than one person has lost an eye to a dog bite.

    By definition, those are serious, permanent injuries which justifies using lethal force to repel the attack.

    Now it is incumbent on you as the defender to be armed with these facts and knowledge beforehand so you can articulate your reasoning for acting the way you did to law enforcement who may be anxious to charge you with a crime. And if they do, you need to get your attorney working on finding the examples to bolster your case, because they are out there in the public domain and should be easy to find.

    Also, you have to be reasonable in your actions. To shoot down a toy Chihuahua or little pug dog... You may have some explaining to do. Yes, their bites can draw blood, and maybe in a rare instance, cause some permanent nerve damage. But the chance of a permanent crippling injury from a toy breed dog is not nearly as likely or expected as receiving a permanent or crippling injury from a large breed animal with a history of the breed to inflict serious harm.

    OC spray is often a good 1st option to employ. If you have the opportunity to do so. I carry a can of OC spray about 90% of the time. One of my express reasons is for use against dogs.

    I also only employ using OC spray with my weak hand and it is only accessible to my weak side. I want to have my gun hand free and clear for a quick access to it if I am pounced by a large dog.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    1. Dogs may run up to you, may even bark, but it doesn't mean they are on the attack. They may be running up to say hello... and that's it. Even a dog barking at you, doesn't mean it's going to attack.

    I've had people try to kill me, never a dog... and I've been around a whole lot of them over my lifetime.

    Dogs can sense your fear, and accordingly to these posts... I think many people have misplaced fears that dogs are going to just attack them out of the blue. A dog usually needs a good reason to attack someone, unlike humans.

    If it's really a vicious dog and on the attack, it's very easy if you've been around dogs to know the difference. Their behavior is quite different. They do exist, and I would have no problem with someone shooting one if it were.... I just get very leery on how jumpy people are towards dogs in general and so ready to fire away at them.

    I would 'defend' my dog... and truthfully ... if you are shooting or pulling your gun, I don't know if your actions are towards me or the dog..... and I'm not sure I would wait around to find out. If my dog ran up to you barking, it would be to get there as soon as possible to meet you and hope to get some attention or play.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    1. Dogs may run up to you, may even bark, but it doesn't mean they are on the attack. They may be running up to say hello... and that's it. Even a dog barking at you, doesn't mean it's going to attack.

    I've had people try to kill me, never a dog... and I've been around a whole lot of them over my lifetime.

    Dogs can sense your fear, and accordingly to these posts... I think many people have misplaced fears that dogs are going to just attack them out of the blue. A dog usually needs a good reason to attack someone, unlike humans.

    If it's really a vicious dog and on the attack, it's very easy if you've been around dogs to know the difference. Their behavior is quite different. They do exist, and I would have no problem with someone shooting one if it were.... I just get very leery on how jumpy people are towards dogs in general and so ready to fire away at them.

    I would 'defend' my dog... and truthfully ... if you are shooting or pulling your gun, I don't know if your actions are towards me or the dog..... and I'm not sure I would wait around to find out. If my dog ran up to you barking, it would be to get there as soon as possible to meet you and hope to get some attention or play.
    Well said!

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