June 14th, 2006 02:10 AM
Kid with a BB gun
A couple years ago a kid of about 11 was aiming what I assumed was a BB gun at me across the river. Nothing serious happened, a few steps later and I was behind hard cover, called the police who were talking to him a few minutes later. After reading the Airsoft incident from the other day, and walking by that same spot, I started thinking. If a child aims something gun-shaped at me, I'm going to assume toy, and act accordingly. If an adult does the same, I'm going to assume gun, and act accordingly. I think most people will do the same. The question is what's the age where it starts to shift from toy to real?
June 14th, 2006 09:00 AM
It changes depending on where you are at.. If its inner city (where I grew up) I think gun no matter what age. In my experience, inner city youths do not have BB guns because they are illegal in inner city. Youths in the country have BB guns. If I grew up somewhere else I'm sure it would be different.
June 14th, 2006 09:54 AM
I doubt one can make any hard and fast rules or cut-off point really. Too many variables.
So much would depend on circumstances, location etc. In a sense, perceived threat. For sure if cover available anywhere then that would be the ideal option to allow time for a challenge perhaps.
It would be pretty much ''play it as you see it'' - specific to that occasion. I hope to never draw and use my carry anyways, even less do I want to shoot at a kid with a darned toy - but if threat is perceived such that I have no other options then it could still be game on.
I really really do want kids to know more about guns, including ''toys'' and the potential dangers of playing ''pretend'' games in the wrong places. Way too much chance of tragedy.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
June 14th, 2006 09:55 AM
I'd say the shift is somewhere around middle school.
June 14th, 2006 11:26 AM
I really don't see a bright line cutoff as to age... I clearly recall Springfield, OR and Kip Kinckle (Q-ball, you are much closer to Springfield than I am here in The People's Democratic Republic of Portland... were you there at the time???). Not to mention Columbine. Just a coupla high profile reminders of kids gone wrong.
My best thought on it... Observe, Assess, and Act (not react as that puts you on the defensive all the time, but then again I am sure I am preaching to the choir here). When in doubt, seek out good cover and wait it out while still observing and assessing and acting on your intell as needed, y'know call the cops, seek an escape route, get a good description of said yute.
A threat is a threat, but if you hesitate... if you are not fully committed to eliminate the threat at that very moment... then it is my belief that it is for a reason. Like the mystery weapon across the river. Unsure whether it was a legitimate threat and took cover. Cool! Good move IMHO. I was reading about the guy who drew down on the suburban full of teens after they blocked his escape route and piled out of the vehicle, one with an airsoft gun that had the muzzle thingie blackened out. That would make me taste bile! My thoughts on that are if he didn't drop his "weapon" and boogie out of there like he did, I would have fired on him. (4 to 1, no easy escape route that would get me out of danger without him getting the drop on me, closing in on me with a weapon in hand... yeah, I would have had to drop him)
Way, way too many variables in each individual situation for a hard and fast, bright line rule.
I just want to say, thanks to all for some very thought provoking posts. Exercising my grey matter in this all too important realm of CCW is good for me. Forgive me if the posts are long, but they DO make me think, and I like to share and I like to learn.
"Your Tax Dollars at Rest"
June 14th, 2006 02:32 PM
If it looks like a gun and points like a gun It IS a Gun. Think and act accordingly.
June 14th, 2006 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by P95Carry
I agree. Situational awareness is going to play a BIG part in a scenerio such as this.
June 14th, 2006 04:49 PM
This is exactly why I believe that there should be NO TOY GUNS! Guns are real, and guns (can) be dangerous and to let kids run around playing shoot em up IMHO is wrong. My father had guns. Shotguns and rifles were never loaded, but every handgun was, and we were taught to respect the weapons and never touch them unless he was present and we unloaded the weapon. My brother and I were NEVER allowed to have toy guns in our home or around the home which to this day I have very glad my parents kept them from us and we grew up and still do to this day have a better understanding and respect for weapons.
If someone is pointing a weapon at you, do you really know if it is a toy or not? Regardless of who is pointing it? If you had to call the police something must have told you that it was real!!
There is no place for toy guns period.
There were NO Guns used to take over the flights on 9-11, IT STILL HAPPENED
Wake up Americans - GUN CONTROL - Means WE LOOSE
June 14th, 2006 05:33 PM
[QUOTE=PDXMichael]I really don't see a bright line cutoff as to age... I clearly recall Springfield, OR and Kip Kinckle (Q-ball, you are much closer to Springfield than I am here in The People's Democratic Republic of Portland... were you there at the time???). Not to mention Columbine. Just a coupla high profile reminders of kids gone wrong.
I was in Springfield at the time and currently live about 6 blocks from Thurston High where the shootings took place. Just the other day I drove by Kinkels home where he used to play with makeshift bombs and murdered his parents. Anyway, to me there is no cutoff, a 10 year old can cut you down as easily as a 30 year old and thats what being observant is all about. If I see a kid with a gun, I'm not going to automatically assume it's a BB gun becuase that kind of assumption could quickly get me killed. Common sense dictates what type of response if any other than a call to the cops would take place.
June 14th, 2006 06:16 PM
I grew up in the 1950s and like most kids then I had toy guns and later BB guns. My father taught me never to point any gun at another. He was not so strict about it when a bunch of us were playing cowboys, but I couldn't sit down for a week if he saw me aim even a toy (cap) pistol at anyone else. By the time I got the BB gun I had learned my lesson. As far as he was concerned, except in play where everyone knew it was play, there was no such thing as a toy gun nor an unloaded gun. All guns were guns and all guns were loaded. I guess that is what shaped my position as well. All guns are real all guns are loaded. If a gun is pointed at me the situation will determine how I react, but immediately I will start to move.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein
June 14th, 2006 09:25 PM
That is EXACTLY why I teach my kids to NEVER point a toy gun at anybody.
It trains them to instictively not point any gun, so that in their older days, when they are holding the real thing, it will not be an issue.
And for the event that another person or LE is in the vicinity and precieves the toy as a threat.
It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?)
“The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is, you point a gun at him,” the Sheriff said.
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