Naive Sheep

This is a discussion on Naive Sheep within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Think this is the right spot if not, mods please move. I know there are a million sheep threads on here but I just had ...

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Thread: Naive Sheep

  1. #1
    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Naive Sheep

    Think this is the right spot if not, mods please move.

    I know there are a million sheep threads on here but I just had an aggravating conversation while out to dinner tonight and I need to vent.
    My wife's aunt and uncle are in town and took us to dinner tonight. They are pretty liberal so I didn't mention anything gun related (I was carrying), but they actually started the subject. They were working security at some church function a while back and were amazed that people were trying to bring guns. I asked them if the people had CHPs and they said that they all did, so I asked them what the problem is. They said that they don't know who the bad ones are so they don't want anyone but security carrying.
    My response was "well the bad guys aren't just going to let you find their gun, and they are also not going to show you their permit to carry it." They looked at me like I was an idiot. They said that no matter what they would find it . Then they go on to talk about how prepared their security is. So I mention the Fort Hood shooting; I know its still a tender subject, I actually lost a close friend there; but I brought it up because it doesn't matter how "prepared" you are it can happen anytime anywhere, this happened on a U.S. military installation.
    They actually responded with, "Well they weren't expecting it, our security knows when to expect it."...!!!! Their church security must get that infamous criminal schedule because the military sure doesn't.
    This is where the conversation ended for me because there was obviously no getting through to them. I did find it kind of ironic that I was carrying the whole time and they had no idea.
    Thanks for letting me rant, I had to vent somewhere and my wife gets mad when I talk about her family lol.
    Last edited by charlie1826; June 13th, 2010 at 06:09 AM.

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  3. #2
    Member Array Griffworks's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Wow....

    Good on you for keeping your kewel and biting your tongue. Sure it wasn't easy.
    Arkansas Concealed Carry Instructor #12-751

    If guns kill people, then:
    Pincels miss spel werds;
    Cars make people drive drunk;
    And spoons made Rosie O'Donnel fat.

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    Member Array cad424's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie1826 View Post
    Think this is the right spot if not, mods please move.

    I know there are a million sheep threads on here but I just had an aggravating conversation while out to dinner tonight and I need to vent.
    My wife's aunt and uncle are in town and took us to dinner tonight. They are pretty liberal so I didn't mention anything gun related (I was carrying), but they actually started the subject. They were working security at some church function a while back and were amazed that people were trying to bring guns. I asked them if the people had CHPs and they said that they all did, so I asked them what the problem is. They said that they don't know who the bad ones are so they don't want anyone but security carrying.
    My response was "well the bad guys aren't just going to let you find their gun, and they are also not going to show you their permit to carry it." They looked at me like I was an idiot. They said that no matter what they would find it . Then they go on to talk about how prepared their security is. So I mention the Fort Hood shooting; I know its still a tender subject, I actually lost a close friend there; but I brought it up because it doesn't matter how "prepared" you are it can happen anytime anywhere, this happened on a U.S. military installation.
    They actually responded with, "Well they weren't expecting it, our security knows when to expect it."...!!!! Their church security must get that infamous criminal schedule because the military sure doesn't.
    This is where the conversation ended for me because there was obviously no getting through to them. I did find it kind of ironic that I was carrying the whole time and they had no idea.
    Thanks for letting me rant, I had to vent somwhere and my wife gets mad when I talk about her family lol.
    It sounds to me like you discredited their "church security" team.
    Entertech AK Centerfire

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  5. #4
    Member Array rightdog's Avatar
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    I am sorry for your loss. Sounds like the in laws dont get it. I hope and pray I don't have to say I am sorry for their loss.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I can understand your frustration, but I think that you did well.
    All one gets out of a p****** match is wet shoes.

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    Member Array sliponby's Avatar
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    To your credit you avoided arguing with a couple of idiots, which usually leaves you upset and with a headache. (My apologies to the wife).
    "We Dare Defend Our Rights", Alabama State Motto...

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    It's really too bad someone can be involved in security but not have any real education in the field.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    Member Array Vladimirx01's Avatar
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    Some people will never listen. Congrats on keeping your cool! Hard thing to do sometimes.

    That said, the first thing any kind of security training really teaches you (although I'd bet it's never in the training plan) is that you can NEVER account for 100% of the possibilities. Security is a tough business, God knows. You're in the wrong when someone gets through, but if you put any real system in place, you're still in the wrong. But absolute faith on what you have in place? "There are absolutely no absolutes."

    I think you did better than I would have... I'm not sure I could have kept it from becoming an argument along the lines of, "So, now that you've disarmed the law-abiding population, what's the liability insurance cover; headstones, grave plots and the like?"

    Good on ya!
    The will to win is meaningless without the will to prepare! -- Joe Gibbs
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live. -- Douglas Adams
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    Member Array 4evrinblujns's Avatar
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    I can also understand your frustration. If I can be so bold,When I run into these conditions I tend to mull over the conversation and ask myself what if I said this or I should have said that. Chances are it will come up again and you can get to a better understanding.
    LET FREEDOM REIGN NOT GOVERNMENT

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    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimirx01 View Post

    I think you did better than I would have... I'm not sure I could have kept it from becoming an argument along the lines of, "So, now that you've disarmed the law-abiding population, what's the liability insurance cover; headstones, grave plots and the like?"

    Good on ya!
    I had a few similar to that in mind lol, but I didn't want to anger the wife. Plus I knew it wouldn't get me anywhere, these people already think that their church security is better than the military so whatever.
    Off topic I noticed your avatar...are you missiles? I was based at malmstrom for a little while.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    They sound like a walking intellectual fantasy, to me. Their plan isn't going to work amongst all plans merely because they wish it.

    Let's hope they aren't so deluded that their plan's shortcomings won't result in harm to them if crime finds them. Whatever else is true, I think it's fair to say that only a violent attack against them will change their high opinions of their own preparedness ... but perhaps not even then.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  13. #12
    Member Array Vladimirx01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie1826 View Post
    Off topic I noticed your avatar...are you missiles? I was based at malmstrom for a little while.
    2W1 - Aircraft Armament Systems... weapons loader by trade. Either way, we're the only kids on our blocks who play with HE for a living. You a 2M0?
    The will to win is meaningless without the will to prepare! -- Joe Gibbs
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live. -- Douglas Adams
    What's the best gun to have in a gun fight? The one you have on you!

    P90DC, LCP, PT145, PT140, LCP, Rem 870 and so on and so on...

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    Member Array Sleipnir's Avatar
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    Here's my super-secret line I use to combat people in entrenched viewpoints, in this case a sheep:

    Sheep: "<Line advocating strict gun control.>"
    Me: "Well it's great that you have an opinion, but my opinion is...<insert your views on 2A.>"
    Sheep: "<Retort.>"
    Me: "Well it's great that you have an opinion, but my opinion is...<insert your views on their retort.>"

    Just stay calm, there's an old English saying, "use soft words and hard arguments."

  15. #14
    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimirx01 View Post
    2W1 - Aircraft Armament Systems... weapons loader by trade. Either way, we're the only kids on our blocks who play with HE for a living. You a 2M0?
    No I'm 2S (supply), the most boring job on the planet, crosstraining window coming up! ..... in like 2 years
    Anybody else who happens to be 2S, no offense if you like the job its just not for me.

  16. #15
    Member Array charlie1826's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleipnir View Post
    Here's my super-secret line I use to combat people in entrenched viewpoints, in this case a sheep:

    Sheep: "<Line advocating strict gun control.>"
    Me: "Well it's great that you have an opinion, but my opinion is...<insert your views on 2A.>"
    Sheep: "<Retort.>"
    Me: "Well it's great that you have an opinion, but my opinion is...<insert your views on their retort.>"

    Just stay calm, there's an old English saying, "use soft words and hard arguments."
    Thats a good way to do it, I'm still young and its hard for me to stay calm when people are so blissfully ignorant. So for now I will try to reason with them calmly but when I hit my breaking point I just shut up, by then its usually a lost cause anyway. These are the types of people that could have a felon put a gun in their face one day, and try to ban all guns the next; instead of figuring out why a felon had a gun (obviously not legally!).
    Sorry still frustrated lol. Thanks for the advice though

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