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Naive Sheep

6K views 91 replies 43 participants last post by  AlexHassin 
#1 · (Edited)
Think this is the right spot if not, mods please move.

I know there are a million sheep threads on here but I just had an aggravating conversation while out to dinner tonight and I need to vent.
My wife's aunt and uncle are in town and took us to dinner tonight. They are pretty liberal so I didn't mention anything gun related (I was carrying), but they actually started the subject. They were working security at some church function a while back and were amazed that people were trying to bring guns. I asked them if the people had CHPs and they said that they all did, so I asked them what the problem is. They said that they don't know who the bad ones are so they don't want anyone but security carrying.
My response was "well the bad guys aren't just going to let you find their gun, and they are also not going to show you their permit to carry it." They looked at me like I was an idiot. They said that no matter what they would find it :sheep:. Then they go on to talk about how prepared their security is. So I mention the Fort Hood shooting; I know its still a tender subject, I actually lost a close friend there; but I brought it up because it doesn't matter how "prepared" you are it can happen anytime anywhere, this happened on a U.S. military installation.
They actually responded with, "Well they weren't expecting it, our security knows when to expect it."...!!!! Their church security must get that infamous criminal schedule because the military sure doesn't.
This is where the conversation ended for me because there was obviously no getting through to them. :mad: I did find it kind of ironic that I was carrying the whole time and they had no idea.
Thanks for letting me rant, I had to vent somewhere and my wife gets mad when I talk about her family lol.
 
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#3 ·
Think this is the right spot if not, mods please move.

I know there are a million sheep threads on here but I just had an aggravating conversation while out to dinner tonight and I need to vent.
My wife's aunt and uncle are in town and took us to dinner tonight. They are pretty liberal so I didn't mention anything gun related (I was carrying), but they actually started the subject. They were working security at some church function a while back and were amazed that people were trying to bring guns. I asked them if the people had CHPs and they said that they all did, so I asked them what the problem is. They said that they don't know who the bad ones are so they don't want anyone but security carrying.
My response was "well the bad guys aren't just going to let you find their gun, and they are also not going to show you their permit to carry it." They looked at me like I was an idiot. They said that no matter what they would find it :sheep:. Then they go on to talk about how prepared their security is. So I mention the Fort Hood shooting; I know its still a tender subject, I actually lost a close friend there; but I brought it up because it doesn't matter how "prepared" you are it can happen anytime anywhere, this happened on a U.S. military installation.
They actually responded with, "Well they weren't expecting it, our security knows when to expect it."...!!!! Their church security must get that infamous criminal schedule because the military sure doesn't.
This is where the conversation ended for me because there was obviously no getting through to them. :mad: I did find it kind of ironic that I was carrying the whole time and they had no idea.
Thanks for letting me rant, I had to vent somwhere and my wife gets mad when I talk about her family lol.
It sounds to me like you discredited their "church security" team.
 
#7 ·
It's really too bad someone can be involved in security but not have any real education in the field. :frown:
 
#8 ·
Some people will never listen. Congrats on keeping your cool! Hard thing to do sometimes.

That said, the first thing any kind of security training really teaches you (although I'd bet it's never in the training plan) is that you can NEVER account for 100% of the possibilities. Security is a tough business, God knows. You're in the wrong when someone gets through, but if you put any real system in place, you're still in the wrong. But absolute faith on what you have in place? "There are absolutely no absolutes."

I think you did better than I would have... I'm not sure I could have kept it from becoming an argument along the lines of, "So, now that you've disarmed the law-abiding population, what's the liability insurance cover; headstones, grave plots and the like?"

Good on ya!
 
#10 ·
I think you did better than I would have... I'm not sure I could have kept it from becoming an argument along the lines of, "So, now that you've disarmed the law-abiding population, what's the liability insurance cover; headstones, grave plots and the like?"

Good on ya!
I had a few similar to that in mind lol, but I didn't want to anger the wife. Plus I knew it wouldn't get me anywhere, these people already think that their church security is better than the military so whatever.
Off topic I noticed your avatar...are you missiles? I was based at malmstrom for a little while.
 
#9 ·
I can also understand your frustration. If I can be so bold,When I run into these conditions I tend to mull over the conversation and ask myself what if I said this or I should have said that. Chances are it will come up again and you can get to a better understanding.
 
#11 ·
They sound like a walking intellectual fantasy, to me. Their plan isn't going to work amongst all plans merely because they wish it.

Let's hope they aren't so deluded that their plan's shortcomings won't result in harm to them if crime finds them. Whatever else is true, I think it's fair to say that only a violent attack against them will change their high opinions of their own preparedness ... but perhaps not even then.
 
#13 ·
Here's my super-secret line I use to combat people in entrenched viewpoints, in this case a sheep:

Sheep: "<Line advocating strict gun control.>"
Me: "Well it's great that you have an opinion, but my opinion is...<insert your views on 2A.>"
Sheep: "<Retort.>"
Me: "Well it's great that you have an opinion, but my opinion is...<insert your views on their retort.>"

Just stay calm, there's an old English saying, "use soft words and hard arguments."
 
#15 ·
Thats a good way to do it, I'm still young and its hard for me to stay calm when people are so blissfully ignorant. So for now I will try to reason with them calmly but when I hit my breaking point I just shut up, by then its usually a lost cause anyway. These are the types of people that could have a felon put a gun in their face one day, and try to ban all guns the next; instead of figuring out why a felon had a gun (obviously not legally!).
Sorry still frustrated lol. Thanks for the advice though
 
#17 ·
Sounds like they could be in for a big suprise some day. Security is a whole different ball game compared to the mindset of the CC world. Their job is to observe and report. Ours is to observe and defend ourselves.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Says the man who improperly uses the word 'ironic.' :image035:

I just call people like that misinformed. Attack a person by calling them ignorant and they try to prove you wrong. Attack a person by calling them stupid and they attack you right back; but attack the source of their knowledge by calling them misinformed and you have now created an opening and openness to adequately portray your concerns and viewpoints for a constructive debate, NOT an argument.
 
#25 ·
It has been said on some of these replies but it makes me feel better to stick my 2 cents worth in. YOU CANNOT TALK OR HAVE ANY LEGITIMATE CONVERSATION WITH ANY KIND OF SHEEP--BE THEM OBAMA SHEEP, GUN SHEEP, LIBERAL SHEEP ETC. They will only wake up, unfortunately, when the SHTF--be it Obama and his liberals taking the US down the road to complete financial ruin and destruction of our American way of life, or be it unfortunate acts of violence against these same sheep. I am Jewish and I consider myself a student of history and when I watch those pix of Jews being rounded up in the 1930s and 40s in Germany with disbelief that this is happening to them even though they are german citizens and I see this fascist/socialist wannabe dictator throw away our Constitution, I am convinced that this can DEFINITELY happen here--AND I WILL NOT BE A SHEEP.
 
#26 ·
Logos, Pathos, Ethos. Learn and command rhetoric and you can bend many, but not all, to your cause; however, use it improperly, and it will spell disaster. Learn how to get into peoples heads and disarm them that way, I've always been a small guy, but I've won far more fights with my mind than with my fists (I've never lost a fistfight.)
 
#29 ·
Think this is the right spot if not, mods please move.

I know there are a million sheep threads on here but I just had an aggravating conversation while out to dinner tonight and I need to vent.
My wife's aunt and uncle are in town and took us to dinner tonight. They are pretty liberal so I didn't mention anything gun related (I was carrying), but they actually started the subject. They were working security at some church function a while back and were amazed that people were trying to bring guns. I asked them if the people had CHPs and they said that they all did, so I asked them what the problem is. They said that they don't know who the bad ones are so they don't want anyone but security carrying.
My response was "well the bad guys aren't just going to let you find their gun, and they are also not going to show you their permit to carry it." They looked at me like I was an idiot. They said that no matter what they would find it :sheep:. Then they go on to talk about how prepared their security is. So I mention the Fort Hood shooting; I know its still a tender subject, I actually lost a close friend there; but I brought it up because it doesn't matter how "prepared" you are it can happen anytime anywhere, this happened on a U.S. military installation.
They actually responded with, "Well they weren't expecting it, our security knows when to expect it."...!!!!
Their church security must get that infamous criminal schedule because the military sure doesn't.
This is where the conversation ended for me because there was obviously no getting through to them. :mad: I did find it kind of ironic that I was carrying the whole time and they had no idea.
Thanks for letting me rant, I had to vent somewhere and my wife gets mad when I talk about her family lol.


The Pentagon needs contact info on these people so they can be trained to properly protect all the US's military bases.
 
#31 ·
I'm sorry also, but Church Security, how good can they be honestly here. I'm glad you kept your cool, it wouldn't have helped to lose it, but "Church Security", I'm just don't see it. I say talk to Pastor and see what he says.
 
#32 ·
The fact that they feel they need to have "armed security" tells me that no place to go.
 
#33 ·
The two largest and most upscale churches in Co Springs have armed security. One of them is New Life Church, Name ring a bell?
 
#34 ·
my .02 opinions:

You did a good job of keeping your cool (and probably your wife too).

Reverie and denial are what occupies their minds rather than situational awareness and contingency planning.

In my experience "They", and most :sheep: are apparently unwilling or unable to openly and honestly think about and discuss possible consequences that are different than the way they see things.

I agree with you, no point in a debate with them.
 
#38 ·
One of the sad things here is that often it takes a scary, life-threatening event to wake some folks from their delusions about the fact that there are truly evil people in the world. If they have one of those encounters, I hope they survive it.
 
#40 ·
New Life church in the Springs was the church where a gunman walked into the church shooting people at random, until he was shot :dead: by one of the security guards. This was AFTER the same man had targeted a home belonging to a Christian mission organization, where, if memory serves correctly, he murdered two young folks.........
 
#42 ·
Heh, gun conversations get frustrating quick when the opposing folks can't, or won't listen to reason. What we interpret to be reason anyway. Best to just end it there.
 
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