Help Defend CC - Page 2

Help Defend CC

This is a discussion on Help Defend CC within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've swapped e-mails with Casey in the past. It didn't take but 2 or 3 to decide the man is an idoit and not worth ...

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Thread: Help Defend CC

  1. #16
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    I've swapped e-mails with Casey in the past. It didn't take but 2 or 3 to decide the man is an idoit and not worth wasting my time and breath on.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array TJK68's Avatar
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    Mr. Casey is a joke. People like him are not willing to listen until it is to late.

  3. #18
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    My post

    56.

    As you say "35.News is news, Tom. It means something out-of-the ordinary happened that people will want to know about. Some of it is good, and much of it is bad."

    So yes, Dan, you are right. It isn't good vs. bad. It is different (i.e., newsworthy a.k.a. will increase readership/audience %) vs,commonplace (i.e., not newsworthy a.k.a. will not increase readership/audience %), in part. To some degree, therefore the commonplace (the something not-out-of-the ordinary) is not covered or at most covered very locally w/o national coverage. So, yes, the very rare the very out-of-the-ordinary [thankfully] big horrific shooting gets wide coverage. OTOH, the more commonplace ordinary self-defense gets little coverage or is ignored. So, a challenge like yours in the thread is highly suspect. To be sure, some cases such as the Golden Food Market shooter saving a number of lives was covered in Richmond store owner, shot, golden, market, store, robbery - wtvr But did this case make national front pages? Why not? Because it was so commonplace? If commonplace, why your question in this thread? OTOH, if not commonplace why not national coverage?

    Thirty some people killed at one time in an "Unarmed-Victim-Rich" zone, it will be all over the major papers and TV news for a very-very long time. OTOH thirty times thirty folk defending themselves (most often w/o firing a shot) will get little if any local coverage -- because it is so ordinary. Even when it is out of the ordinary such as the Appalachian School of Law at Grundy case it doesn't get the coverage of the horrific VT tragedy. So there is no question that the media does present a misleading picture.

    So, why do you have a problem with the fact that Guns are used for self-defense between 2.1 Million and 2.5 Million times every year most w/o much national coverage. The following facts from the Kleck/Gert's study, relate directly to this fact.

    •In the vast majority of those self-defense cases, the citizen will only brandish the gun or fire a warning shot.
    •In less than 8% of those self-defense cases will the citizen will even wound his attacker.
    •Over 1.9 million of those self-defense cases involve handguns.
    •As many as 500,000 of those self-defense cases occur away from home.
    •Almost 10% of those self-defense cases are women defending themselves against sexual assault or abuse.
    •This means that guns are used 60 times more often to protect the lives of law-abiding citizens than to take a life.

    Comment by DaveH — June 13, 2010 @ 12:26 pm
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I've swapped e-mails with Casey in the past. It didn't take but 2 or 3 to decide the man is an idoit and not worth wasting my time and breath on.
    IMHO, It's not a matter of wasting time on him.

    It's a matter of giving his readers something to think about.

    The lie repeated w/o rebuttal become the truth to those lied to.

    We need to keep taking the fight to the antis.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  5. #20
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    Thanks guys, this thread of his alone is enough to demonstrate his idiocy. Keep pressing him!!!

    Here was my latest point:

    57.55.Tom,

    You are so wrong about the media always ignoring good news that it truly undercuts your credibility on just about every other argument.

    Comment by Dan Casey — June 13, 2010 @ 10:26 am

    The only credibility being undercut in this thread is yours. I never said the media ALWAYS ignores good news. But you yourself demonstrated in your posts that it isn't what people want to see and isn't what gets reported on. You contradicting yourself.

    The fact that you are calling out for stories where 2% of the population have stopped mass crimes that happen mostly in places they aren't legally allowed to carry and trying to draw any reasonable conclusion about that population is absolutely absurd.

    These points truly undercut YOUR credibility on just about every one of your arguments.

    Comment by Tom — June 13, 2010 @ 11:08 am
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Got my $.02 in.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  7. #22
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    Sent a 2nd one

    My 1st one finally showed up, here's my second one

    I wonder if purgatory entails endless gun threads. Kinda like being sentenced to a chamber with looped Barry Manilow music or tapes of Joy Behar's voice.

    Comment by Suzie — June 13, 2010 @ 10:24 am
    Likely to continue, until the anti-gun, anti-2A, anti-RKBA quit introducing all their hoplophobic attempts to ban guns, carry, etc.

    Once Virginia adopts "Constitutional Carry" along the lines of AZ, AK, & VT and once papers like the RT quite their scare tactics maybe the purgatory of endless anti-gun threads will end here -- albeit I have little hope for NY, CA. etc.

    According to MSNBC, some six million Americans have permits and carry discreetly. In Virginia anyone who can posses a firearm can Open Carry it. The fears of shootouts at stop lights, bullets for slow waiters and Wild West-style belligerence have been repeatedly proven false and dispelled as hoplophobic fantasies.

    Statistics have shown that crime uniformly drops when states reduce infringements on the right of law-abiding people to keep and bear arms. Society is safer when criminals don’t know who’s armed.

    It is only the alarmist that keep the tune ringing in your ears.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  8. #23
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    Gun Control and Mass Murders - John R. Lott Jr. - National Review Online

    Particularly telling, all the multiple-victim public shootings in Western Europe have occurred in places where civilians are not permitted to carry guns. The same is true in the United States: All the public shootings in which more than three people have been killed have occurred in places where civilians may not legally bring guns.

  9. #24
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    My .02 worth sent to the rag newspaper. He'll think I'm loony as I'm a avid MG shooter/collector
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    You need to explain that CC SD is not meant to thwart "mass" killings. It's meant to thwart individual killings. Otherwise, we'd be CCing assault weapons that are more capable.
    Really good point! It's not likely your average CCer will be able to stop a mass killing, especially if, as is likely, the BG has something more powerful than a handgun.
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  11. #26
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    Need to me careful in defining that, if you post it/quote it.

    For example, the Virginia Tech tragedy took place where "students and employees" could non carry. Non-students and non-employees can carry. BTDT.

    I suspect that there may be others example.

    That said, it's a great point and I'll use it in my ongoing debate with Dan et al.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  12. #27
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    Dan Casey is baiting people. He doesn't give one lick about the position of gun owners. He is in the business of sensational journalism. He makes his living by applying heat to an already hot topic. He gets people all riled up and frothing and makes his point by calmly pointing out the "crazy gun owners".

    Those who read, and agree, with his statements are not going to be swayed from his/their viewpoint. He writes things that, on one hand tick off gun owners and, on the other gives gun control advocates more propaganda.

    God help Roanoke.

  13. #28
    Member Array CPO 15's Avatar
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    "God help Roanoke"


    Heck, with the financial troubles of newspapers today, we in Roanoke can't even get the Washington papers or the Richmond Times Dispatch.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quicksabre View Post
    Really good point! It's not likely your average CCer will be able to stop a mass killing, especially if, as is likely, the BG has something more powerful than a handgun.
    Yep, here's my input but it seems that no one will fire back on common sense. In fact, after I posted this, the subject seemed to have changed from the original question to a 2A issue altogether. At least I kept it somewhat on-topic.....

    Who cares? Asking the question, "How many mass murders have been stopped by a "permit carrying hero" as stated is like asking how many mass accidents have been thwarted by a defensive driver. When I got my driver's license, nowhere on there was a multiple choice question asking, "You want to get your driver's license because: A-You need transportation. B. You're a driver's license carrying hero that wants to stop mass accidents." Nor was there a similar question to obtain my carry permit. I could probably say that near all, (because you can never speak for all) people with CC permits do not think of themselves as heros and do not want to ever be put in the situation of having to defend themselves. But we're the type that values our own lives and the lives of our families enough to defend them. That does not make me a hero. It just ensures that I have a better chance of seeing my kids grow up than you do if we were to be put in such a terrible situation. It happens every day, read the obits. You see, we understand something called reality and are not in denial of it. If you want to look up and post a lot more stats, why not ask, how many good, decent, loving people were to be alive today if they had a better chance to defend themselves? And while you're at it, how many women could have stopped a potential rape or any other violent crime that has been committed against them and now they have to live with that for the rest of their lives? The sickening thing is, they DID have the chance,they just never figured that it would happen to them and they did not think ahead. And they probably figured that "..there is now way anything can happen to me, we have a police department." Myself? I don't live next door to one and my family means more to me than anyone's opinion. To each his own.


    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  15. #30
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    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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