Move, Shoot and Communicate
This is a discussion on Move, Shoot and Communicate within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have never been an X-Purt at gun fighting, but I had the oppurtunity to teach Police Officers and Citizens for the last 30 years ...
June 14th, 2006 01:11 PM
Move, Shoot and Communicate
I have never been an X-Purt at gun fighting, but I had the oppurtunity to teach Police Officers and Citizens for the last 30 years the art.
My agency sent me to Police Firearms Instructor School in the Mid 1970s and then consented to sent me to lots of other firearms training over the next 33 years(it good to have lots of money). They never took into account the fact that most of what I was being taught I had learned a lot of, some through trial and Purple Heart in the Southeast Asian Theme Park. The other I had the fourtunate ability to be trained by the US Secret Service and the US Treasury Academy. Both are first rate.
But the three things that I believe one must do in a gun fight is to move, shoot and communicate.
In basic firearms training, your trying to teach a person to accurately shoot a firearm. The basics of breath control, sight alignment and trigger control are stressed. You start building the good mental and physical habits that the shooter will do without thinking. I also taught proper maintenance of the firearm. After the lenght of the training you hope to have a student that can sit, kneel, stand and shoot the firearm accurately. Then the fun begins.
Most firearm instructors take their students and stand them up at 3, 7, 15 and 25 yards and have them fire their pistols at a target that resembles a human and call it good. Maybe a little sitting, kneeling or shooting and baraciade if available. I always thought it was nice to teach students to do the above three, move, shoot and communicate and most importantly think ahead. The first thing is to teach students to move to cover and if none is available, move laterally. Most folks are right handed and in dealing with percentages I move to my right as it causes the perp to track to his left, which is harder than him tracking to his right. (Its also nice to do your homework on perps if you're running warrants to know whether they are right or left handed.) I also teach my students how to shoot while moving. Its not as easy as it sounds to engage targets at distances while moving. I also teach my students how to work with each other in a gunbattle. It great to be moving, but its also nice to let your fellow attendees know what you're and the BG are doing. And its also nice to say "Magic Words" to the perps so that when your case goes to the Grand Jury all of the witnesses are telling them that your were telling the Bad Guy/Girl not to shoot you, to drop the gun/knife/baseball bat, etc.. and that you were giving them the ability to surrender. Don't use Magic Words that start with "Make My Day or Goodbye A**hole".
This is just the simplified version of what I teach to my friends now that I'm retired and most importantly it is how I pratice. One should remember that pratice makes perfect (just like momma said). I try to shoot two to three times a week and I try to stay away from the benches and the straight lane shooting.
I was just wondering how often and how you other folks out there pratice.
Last edited by Jungle Work; June 14th, 2006 at 01:20 PM.
June 14th, 2006 01:45 PM
Great post, Jungle Work!
I live in an urban area, and straight lane shooting is my main hobby...I do like to get out of town whenever I can for more creative exercises.
"I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York
"They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper
June 14th, 2006 02:07 PM
Great JW - some excellent points there for us all - thx
A handy post in particular for those newer to CCW and all it could involve.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
June 14th, 2006 02:43 PM
Very good read, thanks for the post. Theres some really good points in there.
June 14th, 2006 03:15 PM
Good post. I think that's the first time I've seen someone mention what NOT to say.
EOD - Initial success or total failure
June 14th, 2006 03:27 PM
As the guy that taught my last defensive pistol course said - "Have a plan of which magic words to say, so you don't say the first thing that pops into your head. 'Put the gun' down will play well with the Grand Jury. 'Die Mother******!!!' won't play so well."
June 14th, 2006 07:08 PM
This post is like what I wanted to say in one of my post. Jungle Work we think alike and I agree with you. But living in the city limits you to where you can practice like that. But I feel its a must to learn and be responsible.
June 14th, 2006 07:36 PM
Your post was a good read Jungle....thanks for posting it!
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
June 14th, 2006 07:48 PM
well reasoned and consise jungle
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
June 14th, 2006 07:49 PM
Great reading and lots of food for thought.
"Hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have."
- William Munny (Clint Eastwood in the Unfrogivin)
“The graveyards are full of indispensable men.” – Napoleon Bonaparte
“My Idea of a fair fight is beating baby seals with a club”
June 14th, 2006 10:02 PM
Excellent post! Thank you! Does Treasury also train the IRS Special Agents? I met a few of those in a previous life - I always avoided clients that "knew them" or "wanted to" LOL.
The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard
June 15th, 2006 12:29 AM
I practice the same way I teach, which is very close to what you are saying.
I was just wondering how often and how you other folks out there pratice.
On the communication, I believe in verbal challeges/commands (stop, leave me alone, back away, show me your hands) before the shooting starts. But once the shooting starts, I believe it is time to shut my trap and get the job done.
Moving and shooting is the current focus of my training and teachings. The Integrated Threat Focused course is designed to bring the students threat focused skills to a solid level, where these skills can be taken into the arena where they really shine and where they are most needed......dynamic confrontations.
I have found that sighted fire skills are excellent for encounters where "controlled movement" is all that is needed. But when the action is fast and close and you find yourself behind in the reactionary curve, threat focused skills and dynamic movement combine very well into the most effective solution to the problem.
In the Threat Focused courses that I put on, half of the time is spent on ingraining solid threat focused skills. The second half is taking these skills and applying them with dynamic movement in every direction.
Not only is it great to find out what you are really physically capable of, it is also just plain fun training in this manner. I was training a married couple last weekend. He was big on dynamic movement, she had no prior formal training. She informed him before the course that she would not be shooting one handed on the move. She watched for about two seconds before she wanted in on the fun. She had the skills, the confidence, and the ability towards the end of the course and there was no way she was not going to be part of the action and fun.
Roger Phillips Owner of Fight Focused Concepts
Situations dictate strategies, strategies dictate tactics, and tactics dictate techniques.....techniques should not dictate anything.
June 15th, 2006 04:00 AM
The IRS trains their agents and intelligence folks at the FLETC (Fleatic) near Glynco, Ga. a long with most Federal Agencies. All Federal Agencies train there with the exception of the FBI and DEA.
I went thru Basic Police School in 1972 and 1973 when the Treasury Academy was at 1310 L. St. NW in the District of the Congo. I went through the Criminal Investigator School after the school had moved to Georgia. I attended lots and lots of specialized schools at Glynco and at FLETC West at Artesia, NM. Treasury also has a fairly new school for the Northern East Coast and District of the Congo folks at Cheltenham, Maryland. It came onboard as I was about to retire.
Orginally in the early 1970s, the school (FLETC) was slated to be moved from the District of the Congo to Beltsville, Maryland to an area near the EPS (Executive Protective Service, uniformed Secret Service) Training Center. When the citizens found out, land price skyrocketed and the plan was put on hold. When Jaaameeee Carter became president and he was closing several military installations, the Naval Air Station at Glynco, Ga, became available and the decision was made to move the Treasury Academy there instead of Beltsville. Everybody from the National Park Service Rangers to US Marshals goes to the school for Basic and Specialized LE Training. Training and equiptment are top notch, everything from firearms to survellience and counter terrorist training.
Class Room Training can be difficult and the physical requirements can be strenous, to say the least.
The agency that I worked for trained its LE in everything from Mixed Gas Diving to sending it folks to the Navy Field Medical School at Camp LeJeune, NC., besides the LE Training. They also used lot of Non Federal LE Folks to train it's people in specailized areas.
One of the best schools I attended was a Man Tracking School taught by the US Border Patrol.
But back on training, the finest training organization I was a member of was the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors also know as IALEFI. The folks who provide training at the yearly training seminars are the best from around the US and the World and you get to interact with Police Firearms Instructors from all over. It is a real Class Act. If you're a Law Enforcement Officer and train other officers I highly recommend that you look to becoming a member of that organization. It also has associate memberships for firearms instructors who are not LE and folk who just want to support the organization.
Last edited by Jungle Work; June 15th, 2006 at 04:10 AM.
June 15th, 2006 04:10 AM
Thanks for a good post, JW. The info is sure timely, since most of us only go to the range and shoot targets in a lane. It's good to be reminded to move and seek cover. I like the communication bit. Hadn't thought much about that.
June 15th, 2006 08:58 PM
Excellent post but I have a question, isn't calling them an A**hole considered communicating? Ya I know I have things to learn.
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