About flicking a 1911’s safety off once the gun is holstered
This is a discussion on About flicking a 1911’s safety off once the gun is holstered within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you don't want the safety on, why are you shooting a 1911. Get a Glock or something then you'll never have to worry about ...
June 16th, 2010 05:07 PM
If you don't want the safety on, why are you shooting a 1911. Get a Glock or something then you'll never have to worry about it.
Bend the knees, smooth is fast, watch the front sight.
June 16th, 2010 06:06 PM
I would think that having the safety off in the holster would make one more apt to shoot oneself in the foot!
Like others have already said, when I practice drawing my 1911 from the holster, my thumb rides on the safety and that's the last check on firing. By the time the gun is in place, the safety is off and my finger is ready to engage the trigger.
That's what makes training so important. I used to have more than one type of gun that I carried, but muscle memory is better than my brain (which gun am I carrying? What kind of safety?). I got rid of the rest and now have a compact 1911 and a full sized one too. Same platform, same caliber, same gun, just different length barrel and just one set of skills to practice. I'm just too old to switch back and forth.
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
- G. K. Chesterton
June 16th, 2010 06:40 PM
Carrying a SA 1911 cocked and off safe is downright dangerous, both to you and those around you. You are as a result drawing a piston from your holster with a 3-4 lb trigger. Once you grip it, the grip safety is off and you are free to shoot yourself or anyone else along the path of your draw.
Cocked and Locked. Draw and take gun off safe as you are rising toward the target. Practice until it is second nature. Otherwise please go with another platform, other than SA 1911!!
June 16th, 2010 10:25 PM
I guess all those Browning HiPower's are unsafe then? :)
Originally Posted by Shadwboxer
Even if a 1911's thumb safety gets inadventantly flipped off while holstered (I've done it a time or two), there's still three very seperate and distinct actions that must occur for the firearm to discharge: #1)the firearm must be drawn, #2) the grip safety must get depressed and last but not least #3) the trigger must be pulled with all the above.
The 1911 is a very safe platform, and the HiPower isn't any more unsafe as long as long as it's holstered and the trigger isn't depressed. Rather like a Glock (etc.).
I love my 1911's and will always have and use them, but in force-on-force training I've failed to get the grip safety all the way a time or two due to the incredible rush one finds oneself in when one or more "badguys" are coming at you with a (training) knife and my grip winds up being micrometer off. To my great surprise mind you-I've had one of my 1911's for the better part of 20 years so now and I'm fairly familiar with the platform. (I never failed with the thumb safety however...muscle/mental memory works folks).
So the grip safety can/may be a potential factor for (initial) failure in my experience. The similar argeument (you'll forget it!)against a thumb safety just doesn't fly to anyone who uses the platform on a regular basis however. As both 1911 and a Glock owner, I can see the mentality of why a dedicated Glock (etc.) owner would think that as it is they, unfamiliar with the platform, who may be likely to forget the thumb safety. But not a practiced 1911 owner.
June 16th, 2010 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by BigRAM
Habit and muscle memory win every day over preplanning for actions never taken. If it goes the wrong way, you now have an incident that you have assumed wouldn't happen and you have just lost precious fractions of a second that could mean the difference between life or death.
"You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
-Ruger P345; LCP
-Mossberg 590A1; Model 42
-Phoenix Arms Raven
June 16th, 2010 10:47 PM
Safety always........untill..... It's On.
June 17th, 2010 01:32 PM
I carry all three of my semi autos(not at the same time) with the safety engaged. Those are:
1 Taurus PT1911
2 S&W 457
3 Tanfoglio BTA 90, 9MM
The 457 gets the most use of the 3, with the 1911 a close second. There is no problem unless I become senile enough to forget which way the safety works. The 457 and the BTA 90 are up to fire and the 1911 is down.
June 17th, 2010 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by Janq
We had a scenario on here a few months ago, a real life situation, where a member had to draw his cc from a prone position before the bg found it. They got into a struggle and he couldnt have/didnt activate a grip safety. I dont remember the details but the subject came up in the discussion.
Gunfights arent clean...even after a few good hits, you still might end up in contact with that bg.
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
June 17th, 2010 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by 9MMare
I believe that his hand was injured during the fight, he was unable to get a proper grip, IIRC
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
June 17th, 2010 04:05 PM
People need to train with their weapon
If somebody chooses a weapon system to carry for defense, they also choose all of the positive and negative aspects and operations that go with it. If you have a safety, you use it all of the time. Not just disregarding it when it is inconvenient. The same goes for a de-cock. Just as ctsketch mentioned, even if I am carrying my Glock, my thumb is pushing down an imaginary safety on my 4 count of my presentation every time. It is also thumbing the non-existent de-cock and engaging the safety before re-holstering. No...I would not have to worry about it if all I carried was a Glock type, but I also have a BHP and a Sig I have carried as well.
I am not knocking a 1911 at all, but for such a nice weapon that is one of its disadvantages. In comparison to a Glock guy you will always have that disadvantage that you WILL have to compensate and TRAIN for. It is not un-doable, unless someone refuses to train. With consistent training and muscle memory it will no longer be disadvantage, stress or not, 1911 or Glock.
Surprisingly, it does not take very long at all to develop the muscle memory…and similarly, every incorrect repetition quickly develops bad habits and muscle memory just as fast. The key is very deliberate, repeatable, and accurate steps in your presentation. If you find yourself messing up in the slightest, slow everything down to a ridiculous, stepped slow motion, and work on form. You will naturally be back up to speed in no time. You can only go as fast as your ability allows. Any faster is re-enforcing BAD habits. When you start catching errors, repeat the process. Almost everyone WILL see quick improvement of ability and speed.
If someone can't handle a thumb safety in stressful situation, then carry a Glock, XD, or M&P that does not have that disadvantage. Its not a question of whether you like them or not, it is a matter of what you are willing to be competent with.
May be even think of carrying a revolver. Dare I say, now-a-days they make ones with very pretty pastel colors as to be fashion coordinated.
...OK, I’ll admit it…I do enjoy shooting my wife’s Lady Smith as well.
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