Anyone you know, you wish didn't carry?
This is a discussion on Anyone you know, you wish didn't carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a friend that loves guns. He has quite a collection in fact and is very safe in the field or on the range. ...
June 20th, 2006 01:42 PM
I have a friend that loves guns. He has quite a collection in fact and is very safe in the field or on the range. However, he is responsible enough to realize that he is not responsible enough to CCW. He realizes that he has a temper and likes to drink to excess and that neither of these things mixes with 24hr carry. I applaude him for realizing this, and that is why he is still my friend. Otherwise he would be my perfect canidate for those who shouldn't carry.
June 20th, 2006 02:20 PM
Safe and unsafe aren't relative terms, you either are or you aren't, by all standards.
Originally Posted by cszy67
Stupid is a relative term, but it's generally understood among the firearms community. If you show off your gun, start confrontations, etc, these can be deemed "stupid". There's no interpretation from me here. You either do dumb things or you don't. What if the person has a bad temper, likes to drink, uses mind-altering substances, or just plain makes bad choices? "Bad choices" may be a relative term to you, but it's not to common sense.
If I were the king of the planet, yes I would decree only trained people can carry weapons. Do you want someone that doesn't know how their safety works carrying a gun? Do you want someone that doesn't understand how their firearm works carrying? Do you want them carrying next to you, or your child, or your spouse when they think the safety means they can press the trigger all day and it won't go off? Do you want them to think they're superman and to take a shot at a BG while you or your family is next to them?
And I have not decided your life is worth less than mine. I have however decided what exactly mine is worth, and know how far I will go to defend it. That's the general idea behind self defense.
At the end of the day, you're either safe or you're not. If you're not safe, you shouldn't carry, period. That's my final reply on the subject.
June 20th, 2006 03:30 PM
Note - the computer has limited ability to reveal a persons true attitude. Although my post may appear somewhat hostile and directed towards an individual - it is neither. I enjoy heated debates and hearing different opinions - I hope you do also.
I disagree 100% - safe and unsafe are in fact subjective and relative terms. Most would consider riding a Harley on Sunday afternoon around town relatively safe - I do not. After having raced around the coutry for a few years I consider racing a superbike at 170mph on a racetrack with all the associated safety gear much safer. I doubt many Harley riders would agree with me.
Originally Posted by absit
Each and every one of us rank activities safe/unsafe based upon our personal experiences and education. You and I both are quite confident in our ability to safely carry a firearm for protection. Others may not consider what we do as safe based upon their subjective analysis.
To heck with *the firearms community* and such. Most of the people in *the firearms community* are a bunch of talkers - not movers and shakers. These people talk the talk but dare not walk the walk. They pay their annual dues and sport their NRA life member caps, walk around at gun shows and talk about time gone past. Most don't have the balls to get out there and make things happen. They cower in the face of opposition and turn tale. I consider most information or analysis from the *firearms community* to be worthless.
Originally Posted by absit
If someone has a bad habit of showing their firearm or starting confrontations...nature will take care of this person. In an abstract sort of way, confrontations such as these are better for our society as a whole. We all do dumb things on occasion - not a single one of us are without error. I have made mistakes and I have learned from them. I would suspect that everyone here has in fact made some type of mistake in their life.
I don't think any of us have the right to strip another man of his ability to protect himself or his family because he has, or continues, to make mistakes. I will go out on a limb here and state that I do not feel any government has the right to prohibit a man from protecting himself or his family. Wow...so I think that criminals should have the right to keep and bear arms too...yep, I sure do.
We all know that if a convict desires a firearm they are only minutes away from owning one - let's not fool ourselves into thinking that prohibiting felons from owning firearms makes us any safer. You are a fool to believe that. If an active convict wants to rob a store, they will steal a gun, arrange for a straw purchase, etc. They WILL have a firearm if they desire one.
Now fast forward a decade or so - said convict survives and learns from his *mistakes* and starts a family. Still lives in a relatively dangerous section of town but has children, and a wife, and wants to protect them...what is he to do? His only choice is to commit another crime an unlawfully own a firearm. Who are we to say that he no longer has the right to protect his family? Who are we to look into the eyes of an innocent child who has done no wrong and tell them that they do not deserve the same level of protection that another child can get simply because their father made mistakes some time ago?
Yes, if those people feel the need to carry a firearm I want them to carry. If I feel they are unsafe it is my duty as a husband and father to keep my family safe - keep them away from the other person, etc. But even though I *feel* this other person is unsafe...that same person should still be permitted to carry.
Originally Posted by absit
Regarding the superman shooting...are you referring to the *well trained* LEO that shot another LEO close to here in Norfolk, VA a few weeks ago? Shot him in the back a few times and killed him? Relative to your standards, that shooter was well trained, not stupid, etc. What happened???
Then allow others to exercise their right to defend theirs regardless of how you view them.
Originally Posted by absit
June 20th, 2006 03:48 PM
oO( is it just me or is this thread going south fast ? )
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
June 20th, 2006 04:17 PM
I appreciate the exchange of opinions without personal attacks, but we do seem to be getting into a debate of philosophy here...as Chris mentioned, lets keep the heat turned down
"I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York
"They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper
June 20th, 2006 08:25 PM
Taken to PM, sorry for the disturbance guys.
June 21st, 2006 01:48 AM
Hell, I don't care who carries or not. I'm not all that worried about who is carrying, I'm just worried that I'll be able to carry.
Bad people, with or without a permit, will do bad things. Good people, with or without a permit, should be able to ensure that bad things don't get too bad.
I've been on the boards for awhile, and I've been banned from many also. Because I speak my mind and what I feel.
On this topic, the main word is "wish". Or "Feel". We are just the same as the sheeple, we "feel" or have some type of emotion and then pass that on as "opinion" to feed to people listening.
Me personally, I don't care who is aremed. A mass murderer, the druggie next door, etc. All I care about is that I am able to be armed and to meet force with force if they choose to use it. And if they are targeted, no matter what they have done, to do the same in self defense.
*sigh*... I know that I'm not going to make any friends, I don't care if I make any enemies. I just think very simplistic (as shown by my spelling).
Sometimes I thought that gun owners were our enemy, because of the double standands that they would apply, now I don't think it, I know it.
I guess that I'm just a romantic. You know, one of those that read about our past and dream about it. And then come back to this day and age, and well, stuff is said and happens.
Who don't I want to carry, only those that don't wish to carry. Other than that, even a felon by the feds, or whatever, they should carry. As should those that aren't felons or whatever. It even's out the field and I'm sure that if the Right to fight back with whatever is needed, will reduces your likelyhood of having to do so.
June 21st, 2006 10:00 AM
Sorry guys, I never meant to come across as judging whether or not someone should be able to carry. I believe everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their families. The original thread I posted, I was only trying to convey, my concern over some people's capacity, of mind to carry 24/7. I'm not talking about rights. This can all be summed up by one of our moderators signature's, P95Carry. Just because you own a piano, that doesn't make you a musician.
If you want a battle of the wit's, please come armed.
Ron Paul Revolution 2008!!!
June 29th, 2006 11:48 PM
You do raise some interesting questions and a number of good points.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."
June 30th, 2006 12:33 AM
Originally Posted by PaulG
Donít you just love their belief that it is their right to push their belief system on you all the time, but heaven forbid if you returned the favour! I finally had to be short with my mom, about her anti-gun language, she complained about me talking openly about shooting and I told her that I was sick to death of her and my family trying to make me feel bad about my hobby.
June 30th, 2006 02:37 AM
The only people that carry that worry me
are the criminals. I have known a few people that I felt were less than responsible, but in a free society (which I wish we were), they have the right until their lack or responsibility infinges upon some one elses rights. I do think that we need to be very careful about how we address issues like this. If we (those of us in the CCW community) are not for unfettered access to the RKBA then how can we argue that we should be allow to have the RKBA ourselves? We all gripe because the elites have body guards with full autos while we are not allowed, and yet we can all to quickly gain the same elitest mentality. I say let every man carry, let everyman have the freedom to use all of their rights until they stepped over the line and then they should lose their rights, and suffer the consequences of their actions.
There are only 2 people I trust in this world and you ain't one of'em!
June 30th, 2006 01:18 PM
I just thought of something, we have to be careful on how we use words.
When we say, criminal, we need to be specific. We are all criminals, everyday. Think about it, everyday every person does a criminal act like driving too fast, too slow, improper use of equipment (car), even spitting on the sidewalk (don't laugh, it is a criminal offense in some areas/states).
Will billions of laws, both federal, state and local (okay, so I pulled "billions" out of thin air but I wouldn't doubt that it's close), no one can obey every law, not even the law (as has been shown numerous times).
As to the original post and the clarification that was given: Yes, there are some that I am leery about carrying but that is the price we pay for freedom.
June 30th, 2006 03:18 PM
At every CCW renewal class I see a few...
people who make me wonder and even worry!
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