Disarmed by police; legal?

This is a discussion on Disarmed by police; legal? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Georgia Controlling case law is Jones V State from 2008 Caselaw on GeorgiaPacking.org, THE STATE v. JONES, 289 Ga. App. 176 (2008) After an officer ...

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Thread: Disarmed by police; legal?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Georgia Controlling case law is Jones V State from 2008


    Caselaw on GeorgiaPacking.org, THE STATE v. JONES, 289 Ga. App. 176 (2008)
    After an officer seized a rifle from plain view and ran the serial number to see if it was stolen, the Court of Appeals ruled that an officer does not have "carte blanch authority" to secure all weapons at a traffic stop. In order to justify a search of a vehicle for weapons, some conduct on the part of the occupants such as furtive movements or other indications of danger to the officer must be shown, and the officer must have an "objectively reasonable" belief that the occupants of a vehicle are "potentially dangerous."

    Essentially overrules Megesi v. State. Megesi was a physical precedent only (meaning it is persuasive, but not binding on lower courts). Jones is a binding precedent (meaning all judges concur). The rule in Jones is that stopping someone (Tier 2 or higher) and seizing a weapon for inspection is not permissible, unless there is reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime based on specific and articulable facts which, taken together with the rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the officer in believing that the suspect is dangerous and the suspect may gain immediate control of weapons.



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  3. #17
    Member Array JAG45's Avatar
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    Yes, they can... the courts give LEO's a lot of leeway to go home safe. But if they are still in the asking phase as in "May I have a quick look in your car?" you can always say NO.

    Yes it may happen that the officer takes control of the weapon till the stop is over. Most all departments that l know of do not have a policy on how to handle a traffice stop with a CWP is involved. This is so as not to tie the officer to only having one option on the stop. For there are far too many small things that will effect the stop. Just a few are, time of day, location, number of people in the car, reason for the stop, any one of a whole bunch of small thing the officer notices, driver has all his paperwork, driver starts answering questions befor they are asked. And what has happen to the officer in his past. My department had stop last year where a convicted felon still had his CWP and weapon on him because somehow the paper work had not gone through. Hope all this helps a little.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    yes, it is perfectly legal, it is even legal, but not something i was happy about, for them to strip the weapon, and Majorlk, i can provide the officers name and CAD number if you would like to check my previous post. not trying to be rude, just offering some proof to my statement
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Speaking only for NC, yes, it's legal for them to disarm you.

    Did you see the Mr. Bow Tie video in your CHP class? If so and if you managed to stay awake, he covered that point.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    You bet he or she can disarm you; SCOTUS has affirmed that. What they can't do is violate your 4th Amendment rights, so when they ask to search your person or your car you do NOT have to grant that permission. And as for me, I normally wouldn't just on the grounds that if there is sufficient reason they can get a proper warrant.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter380 View Post
    Chiefjason, can you hear me now?
    Since I have been called out.

    I tend to separate interaction into 2 kinds with LEO's. Bear in mind this is just for my personal decision making. Encounters I have instigated by breaking the law and encounters I have not instigated by breaking the law. The only time I have been disarmed was while OC'ing, pre CCP permit, during an accident investigation. I needed the report, I called the cops, I did not complain. He was pretty cool about it too.

    Breaking the law.

    Speeding, tail light, whatever it is puts you into an official interaction with the LEO. Since a law has been broken you are being detained and subject to more intrusive interactions. Like being disarmed. Personally, I break the law and they want to disarm me I probably won't make much of an issue with it. Because of the entire officer safety issue. I don't like it, don't always agree with it, but I'm not on very sound footing arguing it.

    Not breaking the law.

    I OC regularly so this includes a LEO coming up to me for OC'ing. First I would established whether I am being detained. If I am not being detained then I am free to refuse any request, including conversation. I would ask if I am free to go. If yes, you can walk away. Now, that said, don't be a jerk about it. If a LEO asks me a few questions to gauge my mental status, fine. If it becomes more about the gun, why do you carry, can I secure that while we talk, etc. Then I want to know whether I am officially being detained or whether he hopes I will voluntarily give up the firearm.

    In a traffic check I have never had an issue. If I did I would attempt to treat it as above. It may not work, but I would try. Why? Because I did nothing wrong to initiate the interaction, so disarming me is going too far. Most of my DL checks have lasted a whooping 30 seconds, they make sure my CCP matches my DL and then "Have a nice day."

    The one issue I really dislike is the business of running my guns serial #s. That just ticks me off. I would want to know what RAS or PC they had to think my firearm was stolen? If that was the reason given for disarming me I may very well refuse consent to be disarmed. Let them know that I would not physically try to stop them but in no way do they have consent to disarm me to run the #'s. It's a big pet peeve of mine. It would likely end in a lot of phone calls and emails from me to someone higher up. It may be a complete waste of time but I would do it.

    As far a Terry v Ohio, where would the issue of a crime happening, just happened, or getting ready to happy be resolved in a random DL check? Where is the crime afoot? Note that there is NO firearms exemption for Terry. Which means a firearm by itself, where legal to possess, is not reason for a Terry stop. If you don't believe me google JL v Florida. The SCOTUS found that an anonymous tip of a gun was not enough reason for a Terry stop.

    Terry v Ohio

    "Our evaluation of the proper balance that has to be struck in this type of case leads us to conclude that there must be a narrowly drawn authority to permit a reasonable search for weapons for the protection of the police officer, where he has reason to believe that he is dealing with an armed and dangerous individual, regardless of whether he has probable cause to arrest the individual for a crime. The officer need not be absolutely certain that the individual is armed; the issue is whether a reasonably prudent man in the circumstances would be warranted in the belief that his safety or that of others was in danger."

    But sometimes the jump is made from armed AND dangerous to armed IS dangerous. And that can be a problem. It's a tough situation to balance citizens rights with officer safety. I think disarming everyone you meet is going too far though. So far, that has not been my experience with LEO's in NC. Thankfully.

    Well, there it is. And my official disclaimer is.... my.02, TIFWIW, IANAL, YMMV, just sayin.

    NC Bullseye, any leads on the official stance for this on the net? It's not something I have come across, per the DL check scenario. Most of the above is based on reading I have done and personal decisions about what I am willing to stand up for.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG45 View Post
    My department had stop last year where a convicted felon still had his CWP and weapon on him because somehow the paper work had not gone through. Hope all this helps a little.
    I don't know about Arkansas, but in FL the fellow would be in trouble for being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm, regardless of if the "paperwork" had been run through.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    If an officer asks to look in your car and you are all in the green, there should be no reason to say "No" anyways. I'm sure that it's legal everywhere for an officer to make sure that the scene is safe for him, (expect the unexpected) and that way, he knows that you and him will both go home after the stop. Personally? I would / will let an officer look at whatever he wants and comply with requests. If he wants to look in your car, the reason is most likely due to either you acting suspicious or you're in an area where drugs have been a problem. I figure that saying yes and chit-chatting for about 5 minutes beats the heck out of waiting for 30 minutes for the K9 unit to show up by saying no.

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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter380 View Post
    Suppose you are completely legal and are in a traffic check. You inform (if required) and the officer asks if he may take your weapon. You have done nothing wrong, you are not charged with any crime and you are not under arrest.
    Actually from the stop until the release you ARE
    in "custody" , but I don't know the legal language.

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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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  12. #26
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    An earlier post made me laugh. I did have an officer strip a gun of mine during a stop- but it was simply because he was a gun nut and had never seen a P9 before. He asked if it'd be OK, and I said it would- so he did. Great conversation with a great guy, even if he did stop be for 4 over.
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  13. #27
    Member Array shooter380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Speaking only for NC, yes, it's legal for them to disarm you.

    Did you see the Mr. Bow Tie video in your CHP class? If so and if you managed to stay awake, he covered that point.
    I do not remember the Mr. Bow Tie video..... But it has been a few years.

    Thanks for all the excellent replies. I thought it was legal but thought I would ask. Thanks again to all.

  14. #28
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    Chiefjason,

    Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful reply

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    yes, it is perfectly legal, it is even legal, but not something i was happy about, for them to strip the weapon, and Majorlk, i can provide the officers name and CAD number if you would like to check my previous post. not trying to be rude, just offering some proof to my statement
    Please accept my apology for doubting you.
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  16. #30
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    According to our laws, yes. But, ask me if I agree with that law.

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