Disarmed by police; legal?

This is a discussion on Disarmed by police; legal? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mprp If an officer asks to look in your car and you are all in the green, there should be no reason ...

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Thread: Disarmed by police; legal?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mprp View Post
    If an officer asks to look in your car and you are all in the green, there should be no reason to say "No" anyways. I'm sure that it's legal everywhere for an officer to make sure that the scene is safe for him, (expect the unexpected) and that way, he knows that you and him will both go home after the stop. Personally? I would / will let an officer look at whatever he wants and comply with requests. If he wants to look in your car, the reason is most likely due to either you acting suspicious or you're in an area where drugs have been a problem. I figure that saying yes and chit-chatting for about 5 minutes beats the heck out of waiting for 30 minutes for the K9 unit to show up by saying no.

    JMO

    Let me tell you a story. A buddy of mine was stopped late one night. 2 black males, tough part of town but they were coming home late from a high school basketball game that was out of town. Cop stops him for no real reason. Asks if he can search the car. My buddy says yes, nothing to hide right? 2 hours later he is released from this nonsense, but his stuff is now scattered around his car. No thanks. The answer is no from me. IMO, if they have to ask they have no real reason to search. They are just looking to get your permission. If they had a real reason, they would not ask. They would already have PC to search. If I am a law abiding citizen, all I ask is that you do not treat me like a criminal. Is that so much to ask?
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  3. #32
    Member Array JAG45's Avatar
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    chiefJ, +1..

    OldVet, oh yes the armed CF was in deep dirty water. But my point was that not all CHP holders are good to go. And that one officer who it happened to will always from now own take charge of that weapon. As I have posted several times before on the forum, I do not think I have stopped more that a handfull of people who have a CHP, all for a very minor traffic offense. "Sorry for the stop, thank you and have a good day." You just do not get to meet very many at a traffic stop.

  4. #33
    Member Array XDM40cal's Avatar
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    Just to add its upto the office in michigan, my first encounter with a LEO went well and he did not diarm me durring the stop, I acciendently rear end a car with my work truck..
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  5. #34
    Member Array basher052's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinistrMalic View Post
    You bet he or she can disarm you; SCOTUS has affirmed that. What they can't do is violate your 4th Amendment rights, so when they ask to search your person or your car you do NOT have to grant that permission. And as for me, I normally wouldn't just on the grounds that if there is sufficient reason they can get a proper warrant.
    And, if they have sufficent PC to search the vehicle, they will anyway and there is not much you can do to stop it at the time. Giving them permission gives up all of your rights to contest any found items in the vehicle (al la the 4th amendment). The smart answer is: "I will not give you the right to search my vehicle, but if you feel you have probable cause, I will in no way hinder you". If they had no PC to begin with it could become "fruit of the poisionious tree".

    JMHO
    Andy
    You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas - David Crockett
    When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

  6. #35
    Member Array basher052's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Let me tell you a story. A buddy of mine was stopped late one night. 2 black males, tough part of town but they were coming home late from a high school basketball game that was out of town. Cop stops him for no real reason. Asks if he can search the car. My buddy says yes, nothing to hide right? 2 hours later he is released from this nonsense, but his stuff is now scattered around his car. No thanks. The answer is no from me. IMO, if they have to ask they have no real reason to search. They are just looking to get your permission. If they had a real reason, they would not ask. They would already have PC to search. If I am a law abiding citizen, all I ask is that you do not treat me like a criminal. Is that so much to ask?
    Bingo!

    Here is another reason why I would say no if asked.
    A few years back (ok, like 15) I worked for Enterprise Rent A Car. If you only knew the kinds of things we would find under the seats, in the trunk, hubcaps, engine area......not good. If you waived your 4th amendment rights, well, you said he could look in the car. At the point you gave up that right, he no longer needed PC to check the vehicle, and anything he finds in the vehicle is admissable in court.

    I agree with you....what do I have to hide? Im legal, right? But you never know what could be found from say a friend who you had given a ride to, a valet that parked your car, a service man at the repair shop...on and on.

    People fought and died for the rights we have today, and to flippantly give them up by trying to be nice is just not a good plan of action. Our rights, well those we have left anyway, are what separate us from other countries.

    All that said, I worked a 8 hrs shift last night, helped put several people in jail, and helped uphold the law. I am very, VERY, pro police officer. Most of my close friend are LEO. But im not giving up my rights just to accomidate someone.

    OK, I think I got it all out now
    Andy
    You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas - David Crockett
    When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Majorlk, no hard feelings, apology accepted
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  8. #37
    Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    What about here in Oklahoma? While I'd comply with an officer wishing to disarm me, the law states,
    D. Any law enforcement officer coming in contact with a person whose handgun license is suspended, revoked, or expired, or who is in possession of a handgun license which has not been lawfully issued to that person, shall confiscate the license and return it to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation for appropriate administrative proceedings against the licensee when the license is no longer needed as evidence in any criminal proceeding.
    E. Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed.
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

  9. #38
    Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    It further states

    A. Notwithstanding the provisions of 1272 or 1289.13 of this title, any person stopped pursuant to a moving traffic violation who is transporting a loaded pistol in the motor vehicle without a valid concealed handgun permit authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or valid license from another state, whether the loaded firearm is concealed or open in the vehicle, shall be issued a traffic citation in the amount of Seventy Dollars ($70.00), plus court costs for transporting a firearm improperly. In addition to the traffic citation provided in this section, the person may also be arrested for any other violation of law.
    B. When the arresting officer determines that a valid handgun license exists, pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or any provision of law from another state, for any person in the stopped vehicle, any firearms permitted to be carried pursuant to that license shall not be confiscated, unless:
    1. The person is arrested for violating another provision of law other than a violation of subsection A of this section; provided, however, if the person is never charged with an offense pursuant to this paragraph or if the charges are dismissed or the person is acquitted, the weapon shall be returned to the person; or
    2. The officer has probable cause to believe the weapon is:
    a. contraband, or
    b. a firearm used in the commission of a crime other than a violation of subsection A of this section.
    C. Nothing in this section shall be construed to require confiscation of any firearm.
    Last edited by nightsonge; June 27th, 2010 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Added Bold type
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Tennessee cops must not be as nervous as some others. I have a lead foot and get a speeding ticket every year or two. I always disclose and I have never had one ask for my weapon.

    I did have one lady officer down in Knoxville say "well don't make any sudden movements for it", which I thought rather silly. As we all know people who get a permit are generally good guys and anyone intending to try to shoot a cop certainly isn't going to announce the fact that they are armed.

  11. #40
    Member Array spike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I wouldn't object if LEO pulled the mag and emptied the chamber for the duration of the stop and handed it back to me in that condition, but I would object if said LEO thought he needed to strip it.
    I to would object to this, I feel that this is unreasonable. the premise of Terry v Ohio is officer safety. Once the firearm has the magazine out of the well, and the round is ejected from the chamber the firearm is safe as we all know. To field strip your weapon and give it back to you in pieces is wrong. If he/or she had cleaned if for me in the process that a different story But for what its worth everything has to be reasonable that a LEO does.

    my view on the subject
    spike

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array DaveJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Let me tell you a story. A buddy of mine was stopped late one night. 2 black males, tough part of town but they were coming home late from a high school basketball game that was out of town. Cop stops him for no real reason. Asks if he can search the car. My buddy says yes, nothing to hide right? 2 hours later he is released from this nonsense, but his stuff is now scattered around his car. No thanks. The answer is no from me. IMO, if they have to ask they have no real reason to search. They are just looking to get your permission. If they had a real reason, they would not ask. They would already have PC to search. If I am a law abiding citizen, all I ask is that you do not treat me like a criminal. Is that so much to ask?
    +1

    Rights given up voluntarily are rights not worth protecting...

    I will always treat a LEO with respect, and ask for nothing more in return...
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  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    In MI they are allowed to remove your gun. I have only had one cop do this (just 2 weeks ago).
    I fell this is another reason to change the stupid law forcing you to inform.

  14. #43
    Member Array mauser1959's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Let me tell you a story. A buddy of mine was stopped late one night. 2 black males, tough part of town but they were coming home late from a high school basketball game that was out of town. Cop stops him for no real reason. Asks if he can search the car. My buddy says yes, nothing to hide right? 2 hours later he is released from this nonsense, but his stuff is now scattered around his car. No thanks. The answer is no from me. IMO, if they have to ask they have no real reason to search. They are just looking to get your permission. If they had a real reason, they would not ask. They would already have PC to search. If I am a law abiding citizen, all I ask is that you do not treat me like a criminal. Is that so much to ask?

    +100%

    Reasonable search and seizure, is just that; LEO whim, does not rise to the level of reasonable. I will always refuse to let an officer search my vehicle if given a choice... by the same token, I do not break the law besides a once in a blue moon speeding infraction. If I recall correctly, there was a LEO search that was deemed not reasonable due to the fact that the officer stopping a vehicle held a car until dogs arrived... overly long seizure. Protect your 4th and 5th amendment rights and never, ever, waive them. If being held, always ask for an attorney, to many times words can be manipulated form guilt; if not held , go on your way.
    A hand gun is like a fire extinguisher , I wish to use neither, but have both on hand in case of need ; both are personal protection devices that serve the same purpose . ie safety of you and your family.

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauser1959 View Post
    If I recall correctly, there was a LEO search that was deemed not reasonable due to the fact that the officer stopping a vehicle held a car until dogs arrived... overly long seizure.
    You don't recall correctly. That authority has been upheld.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mprp View Post
    If an officer asks to look in your car and you are all in the green, there should be no reason to say "No" anyways. I'm sure that it's legal everywhere for an officer to make sure that the scene is safe for him, (expect the unexpected) and that way, he knows that you and him will both go home after the stop. Personally? I would / will let an officer look at whatever he wants and comply with requests. If he wants to look in your car, the reason is most likely due to either you acting suspicious or you're in an area where drugs have been a problem. I figure that saying yes and chit-chatting for about 5 minutes beats the heck out of waiting for 30 minutes for the K9 unit to show up by saying no.

    JMO

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Let me tell you a story. A buddy of mine was stopped late one night. 2 black males, tough part of town but they were coming home late from a high school basketball game that was out of town. Cop stops him for no real reason. Asks if he can search the car. My buddy says yes, nothing to hide right? 2 hours later he is released from this nonsense, but his stuff is now scattered around his car. No thanks. The answer is no from me. IMO, if they have to ask they have no real reason to search. They are just looking to get your permission. If they had a real reason, they would not ask. They would already have PC to search. If I am a law abiding citizen, all I ask is that you do not treat me like a criminal. Is that so much to ask?
    Quote Originally Posted by basher052 View Post
    Bingo!

    Here is another reason why I would say no if asked.
    A few years back (ok, like 15) I worked for Enterprise Rent A Car. If you only knew the kinds of things we would find under the seats, in the trunk, hubcaps, engine area......not good. If you waived your 4th amendment rights, well, you said he could look in the car. At the point you gave up that right, he no longer needed PC to check the vehicle, and anything he finds in the vehicle is admissable in court.

    I agree with you....what do I have to hide? Im legal, right? But you never know what could be found from say a friend who you had given a ride to, a valet that parked your car, a service man at the repair shop...on and on.

    People fought and died for the rights we have today, and to flippantly give them up by trying to be nice is just not a good plan of action. Our rights, well those we have left anyway, are what separate us from other countries.

    All that said, I worked a 8 hrs shift last night, helped put several people in jail, and helped uphold the law. I am very, VERY, pro police officer. Most of my close friend are LEO. But im not giving up my rights just to accomidate someone.
    With regards to chiefjason's & basher052's response to giving permission to search your vehicle, I agree 100% on both posts!

    There is no good reason to give up your right to be secure from unreasonable search & seizure as protected in the Constitution.

    I am also stipulating that I am referring to people who have legitimately done nothing wrong and are not involved in any illegal activities.

    As chiefjason pointed out, they can get real aggressive in tearing your car apart and trashing it in their zeal to find contraband. Then, if nothing is found, they are under no obligation to put your car back together the way it was before the search.

    As basher pointed out, if they find any contraband, even if it truly isn't yours, you are stuck with it! You're in a rental car and something got left behind by previous renter? Too bad for you.

    Your 17 year old son left a roach in the front seat when he went out on a date and you really have no idea he smokes pot... Well, it sucks to be you, because it's your vehicle, you're the one in immediate control of it at the time of the stop and it's your roach.

    So, for something where you would otherwise be having a very long conversation with your son had you been the one to find the roach while cleaning the car, now you're the one in handcuffs and you're gonna be spending a lot of money in attorney fees in an attempt to clear this situation up. And it may not be money well spent, because you may still end up with a conviction.

    You're legal, you have nothing to hide, you've done nothing wrong so you assume you have nothing to lose by allowing them to search your car. You may even think it will allow you to be on your way sooner. They may even have told you that.

    However, there are a lot of ways things can go wrong, and if you haven't thought of every one of them you're foolish to give consent to an unnecessary search they have no legal grounds to perform.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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