Disarmed by police; legal?

This is a discussion on Disarmed by police; legal? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Nightsonge, taking the weapon as authorized under Terry is not inspecting the weapon nor is it confiscating it. It is securing it until the end ...

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Thread: Disarmed by police; legal?

  1. #61
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    Nightsonge, taking the weapon as authorized under Terry is not inspecting the weapon nor is it confiscating it. It is securing it until the end of the stop, nothing more and nothing less. The state law does not, and could not, trump decided case law from the Supreme Court, and the legislature had no intention of doing so in this particular case.

    If the officer decided to start checking to see if the gun was stolen or didn't want to give it back at the end of the stop, then the two portions of the SDA that you quoted would apply.
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  3. #62
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=mauser1959;1678103]+100%

    Reasonable search and seizure, is just that; LEO whim, does not rise to the level of reasonable. I will always refuse to let an officer search my vehicle if given a choice... by the same token, I do not break the law besides a once in a blue moon speeding infraction. If I recall correctly, there was a LEO search that was deemed not reasonable due to the fact that the officer stopping a vehicle held a car until dogs arrived... overly long seizure. Protect your 4th and 5th amendment rights and never, ever, waive them. If being held, always ask for an attorney, to many times words can be manipulated form guilt; if not held , go on your way.[QUOTE]

    There is always the possibility that your car is going to become evidence. Accidents, car-break-in, etc will mean surrendering your car to the police, at least for search. The answer is very simple: don't ever carry anything in your car that could incriminate you. As I stated above, you will have to fight legality in a court of law: Don't get into a debate with an LEO on the scene. He is in charge and at the moment, right. Don't find out the hard way that the court is about 99% sure to back him up. This isn't done to oppress anybody, it is done to allow control at the scene. Authority exists, and for good reasons, don't try to assume control of everything. If you can't understand this, there are some really good "talking doctors" in the phone book that help you comprehend the reality of this.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruffinit View Post
    As I recall from my class, the requirement in NC is that the officer return your firearm to you in the condition in which it was received.

    That being said, our instructor also made a very good point.
    If the officer does take your weapon for the duration of your interaction and unloads it, he (and I concur) would not want an officer to attempt to reload my weapon as he may not be familiar with the correct handling procedures for my weapon.

    He also said that in that case, what he does and recommends is to very politely request that the officer allow you to leave your weapon holstered as either of you drawing it out simply adds the possibility of accidental discharge or other safety concerns to the situation.

    What he told us was that former students that he has spoken with have related that only one community in our area seems to have officers that wish to view or handle citizens' weapons. The rest are being reported to him as simply inquiring where the weapon is and directing the person to please keep their hands away from that area.

    Your milage may vary.

    Ruffinit
    First, there is no requirement in NC for the officer to return it to you in any specified condition. (Meaning loaded or not, holstered or not) There have been instances of officers putting the firearm, unloaded in the trunk and requesting the owner wait till he's gone to reload and holster. Is it right? Not my call, but there is no statute stating how the gun is to exchange hands.

    You may request anything you want of the officer, just be ready to do things his (or her) way no matter what you ask.

    All of this being said, I have NEVER had a bad encounter with any NC LEO while carrying. They have all been professional and have responded in the same manor as they were addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruffinit View Post
    The other point I forgot to mention is that the issue of probable cause for a search was covered in our class also. Per NC law, the fact that you disclose that you are carrying a lawfully concealed handgun IS NOT probable cause for an LEO to search your vehicle.

    Ruffinit

    Once again, there is no statute in NC that says that disclosing you have a CHP is not probable cause for a search. If you know of one, please list the statute number.

    As to searches after displaying a CHP and having a handgun with no other suspicious circumstances are very very rare if ever occurring. Most of the time there is something else in conjunction with the CHP and handgun that triggers the search.

  5. #64
    Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    I would tend to disagree, While the Supreme court may have ruled that it is constitutional for the officer to disarm a CCW holder, the state may forbid it.
    To me, "granted I'm not a lawyer" Oklahoma law is fairly clear, the officer may not inspect your weapon UNLESS he believe you have comitted a crime, or are about to do so, the weapon is believed to be contraband, or to have been used in a crime.
    To me, the phrase "Officer may not inspect the weapon" reads that he is not to ask for it EXCEPT in the circumstances the law states that he may do so.
    Again, as I stated, I'd politely comply, during a stop, what the officer says goes. Period. However, based upon my interpretation of the law in Oklahoma, I'd be talking with his superiors at a later date regarding the incident. Personally, I'd much rather retain my weapon, nearly getting shot by a police officer trying to unload it on one occasion was enough. That's the reason I refuse to carry my Grendel as a backup gun, it's accurate, reliable, but there is no clip, you have to turn it upside down, and rack the slide 11 times to unload it, then find the bullets. I'd really not like to see someone unfamiliar with it attempt it's unloading.
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

  6. #65
    Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    The weapon in that incident BTW, was not the Grendel, it was my 1911, he was pointing it directly at me, trying to clear the chamber by pulling on the slide and TRIGGER. Needless to say, it wasn't fun trying to get into the floorboards while cuffed.
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

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