Question about the VA restaurant carry law

Question about the VA restaurant carry law

This is a discussion on Question about the VA restaurant carry law within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Now that VA has concealed restaurant carry, will I be fine if I carry concealed in a place that is more like a bar than ...

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Thread: Question about the VA restaurant carry law

  1. #1
    Member Array beni's Avatar
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    Question about the VA restaurant carry law

    Now that VA has concealed restaurant carry, will I be fine if I carry concealed in a place that is more like a bar than a restaurant and not drink? I ask this because I remember reading somewhere that VA does not distinguish between a bar and a restaurant when they issue license to serve alcohol.


  2. #2
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    I'm not sure, but I am happy not to leave it in the car when I go there in future.

  3. #3
    Member Array WhatGun's Avatar
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    This is what I understand.

    Virginia does not recognize a difference between a "Bar" and a Restaurant that sells beer to be served on site. Therefore, you can CC at all of those places now, however it is a crime to consume. You can carry at a bar no problem, just no drinking.

  4. #4
    Member Array beni's Avatar
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    That is what I heard. Consuming is not a big deal to me since I don't drink anyways. I just want to make sure I can carry if I go out with some old friends when I'm back in VA visiting. I was hoping Handgunlaw.us would have been updated but the old statue is still in the places off limits to carry section still.

  5. #5
    Member Array secondhandlo's Avatar
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    The commonwealth of virginia does not, strictly speaking, have bars. Any such place must sell enough food to qualify as a restaurant/pub.


    I believe 51% of profit must come from non alcohol sales.

  6. #6
    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    You're O K to CC if there is no sign. You can't consume unless you OC.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

  7. #7
    Member Array secondhandlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy McC View Post
    You're O K to CC if there is no sign. You can't consume unless you OC.
    Signs have no legal meaning in va.

  8. #8
    Member Array fireman836's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by secondhandlo View Post
    The commonwealth of virginia does not, strictly speaking, have bars. Any such place must sell enough food to qualify as a restaurant/pub.


    I believe 51% of profit must come from non alcohol sales.
    45% and doesn't include beer and wine sales, only food and spirits included in the calculations as I IIRC.
    I carry a bible and a gun. Your Point?

    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by secondhandlo View Post
    The commonwealth of virginia does not, strictly speaking, have bars. Any such place must sell enough food to qualify as a restaurant/pub.
    This is my understanding as well.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    In some states and jurisdictions establishments may serve alcohol and not serve food - hence, a bar.
    In VA if you sell alcohol to consume on premises you must also serve food - hence, a restaurant that serves alcohol (no bars in VA).


    Some Virginia laws as of July 1, 2010:

    People who legally carry firearms openly already may enter restaurants that serve alcohol and may drink.

    A new law allows concealed carry, but prohibits concealed handgun carriers from consuming alcohol in a club or restaurant.

    A concealed gun carrier who violates the law by consuming alcohol can be charged with a class 2 misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.

    A restaurant owner may refuse service to gun carriers and prohibit them from entering with their weapons, concealed or not.

    Gun owners can also be charged with trespassing for brining their weapons into establishments that post signs prohibiting them.

    Another new law - People who don’t have concealed weapons permits may stow their firearms in the glove compartment or a container in their vehicle.

    Bobo
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  11. #11
    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by secondhandlo View Post
    Signs have no legal meaning in va.
    If a restaurant owner post a no guns sign on his door in VA, you can't LEGALLY carry in the restaurant.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

  12. #12
    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    In some states and jurisdictions establishments may serve alcohol and not serve food - hence, a bar.
    In VA if you sell alcohol to consume on premises you must also serv
    A restaurant owner may refuse service to gun carriers and prohibit them from entering with their weapons, concealed or not.
    e food - hence, a restaurant that serves alcohol (no bars in VA).


    Some Virginia laws as of July 1, 2010:

    People who legally carry firearms openly already may enter restaurants that serve alcohol and may drink.

    A new law allows concealed carry, but prohibits concealed handgun carriers from consuming alcohol in a club or restaurant.

    A concealed gun carrier who violates the law by consuming alcohol can be charged with a class 2 misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.

    A restaurant owner may refuse service to gun carriers and prohibit them from entering with their weapons, concealed or not.

    Gun owners can also be charged with trespassing for brining their weapons into establishments that post signs prohibiting them.

    Another new law - People who don’t have concealed weapons permits may stow their firearms in the glove compartment or a container in their vehicle.

    Bobo
    That's the way I understand it.

    According to the VCDL, the restaurant or club has the right to notify customers that guns are prohibited
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by beni View Post
    Now that VA has concealed restaurant carry, will I be fine if I carry concealed in a place that is more like a bar than a restaurant and not drink? ....
    OP, Yes!

    You will be fine if you carry concealed in a place that is more like a bar than a restaurant and not drink.

    In Virginia, most public places where you would likely go that serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption are a restaurant or club.

    FWIIW -- the % of sales needed for for a beer, or wine and beer license is less than for for a mixed beverage license, for a restaurant.

    The relevant law:

    "J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any
    restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and
    serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by
    the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of
    Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person
    who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or
    club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
    However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or
    local law-enforcement officer."
    [emphasis added]
    Note: this law only applies to restaurants and clubs as defined in § 4.1-100.

    LIS > Code of Virginia > 4.1-100

    ....
    "Club" means any private nonprofit corporation or association which is the owner, lessee, or occupant of an establishment operated solely for a national, social, patriotic, political, athletic, or other like purpose, but not for pecuniary gain, the advantages of which belong to all of the members. It also means the establishment so operated. A corporation or association shall not lose its status as a club because of the conduct of charitable gaming conducted pursuant to Article 1.1:1 (§ 18.2-340.15 et seq.) of Chapter 8 of Title 18.2 in which nonmembers participate frequently or in large numbers, provided that no alcoholic beverages are served or consumed in the room where such charitable gaming is being conducted while such gaming is being conducted and that no alcoholic beverages are made available upon the premises to any person who is neither a member nor a bona fide guest of a member.

    Any such corporation or association which has been declared exempt from federal and state income taxes as one which is not organized and operated for pecuniary gain or profit shall be deemed a nonprofit corporation or association.

    ....

    "Restaurant" means, for a beer, or wine and beer license or a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, any establishment provided with special space and accommodation, where, in consideration of payment, meals or other foods prepared on the premises are regularly sold.

    "Restaurant" means, for a mixed beverage license other than a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, an established place of business (i) where meals with substantial entrees are regularly sold and (ii) which has adequate facilities and sufficient employees for cooking, preparing, and serving such meals for consumption at tables in dining areas on the premises, and includes establishments specializing in full course meals with a single substantial entree.

    ....
    Most places where alcoholic beverages is sold are either restaurants or clubs. However, there are some other places where alcoholic beverages can be sold and consumed -- Day Spa, Meal Assembly Kitchen, Mixed Beverage Caterer, Airplane, Boat, Train, Amphitheater, Motor Sports Facility, Special Event, Banquet Facility, Bed and Breakfast, Canal Boat, Equine Sporting Facility, Gourmet Brewing Shop, Motor Car Sporting Facility, Museum.

    See: License Types & Costs

    There is no law against CC in any such places except restaurants and clubs as defined in § 4.1-100.

    So, other than restaurants and clubs there is no restriction on CC and drinking in places where alcoholic beverages are sold.

    Also, in restaurants and clubs there is no restriction against OC and drinking alcoholic beverages.
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  14. #14
    Member Array celticredneck's Avatar
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    There is a thread running on OCDO about an idiot Richmond bartender blogging about what he will do to anyone he sees carrying in his establishment.

    Here is a link to the thread:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-of-employment.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    "Gun owners can also be charged with trespassing for brining their weapons into establishments that post signs prohibiting them."

    Unless the law was changed, I think one has to be asked to leave first, and if you refuse then you are subject to trespass.

    That was the answer that I got when I asked the Va. State Police.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

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