Disappointed by my brother, he appears to be an anti

[hardworker]

More than likely you won't need it. That's definitely one way to interpret my reply. You need air. You need food. You need water. A gun is great for wasting ammo at the range and occasionally self defense but millions of people have lived long and fulfilling lives without one. Does that mean you shouldn't carry one? Absolutely not. In the rare chance you use it you'll be glad you had it. I keep a pistol loaded in my dresser at all times for just such contingencies. My argument is don't let carrying a gun control your life. We're not in the wild west.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Spander]

Always carry, never tell.

You told. Don't do that.

[Pepsi]

He doesn't come to my parents house to help them with anything, even if they ask for it. (they are in their late 60's with some health problems) But he is always going to his wife's parents place to help with stuff.

wow..shame on him...

maybe you'll have to stick around for our parents sake..

[BugDude]

I hate to be a stickler for details, but FBI statistics show that criminals do tend to burglarize poor crime-ridden parts of town (hence the term "crime-ridden"). In fact the majority of burglaries happen with one poor person robbing another poor person and not someone venturing into the good part of town to rob wealthier people. Apparently, they haven't "figured that out long ago."

This is not saying that I think that there is no risk in "good neighborhoods" or that people shouldn't be prepared to defend themselves but the risk is a lot lower than you think. Depending on the neighborhood, his brother's kids are far more likely to drown in a pool or be hit by a car than be hurt by criminals.

-- This message has been brought to you by someone who lives in the good part of town AND owns guns for self-defense.

Perhaps the dim-witted criminals high on crack looking for anything they can get 20 bucks out of for their next high rob the poor neighborhoods (which probably makes up a large number), but the career hard core criminals who target homes and people rather than react off of stoned impulse are going to target the nice homes with good potential. It's not their first rodeo and they have honed their craft and learned the risk and reward system of targeting. They take time to case people and houses...they do their homework. Just a thought...I'm no criminal justice expert.

[BugDude]

The bottom line is every person has the right to choose the best means for them to defend themselves and their family. It may not be the same means for everyone.

One brother has chosen his means, a firearm, and it is his right. The other has chosen his means, and it does not include a firearm, and that is his right. Any private property owner reserves the right to not allow firearms onto their property...they bought it and pay taxes on it, so that is their right. If one brother chooses to exercise his right and say no weapons, then the choice is now on the other brother to either leave it and visit or not visit. Pretty simple exchange of rights exercising and choices to be made. Whether or not anyone agrees with any of those choices (regardless of which side) doesn't diminish that person's right to make them.

I personally do not know how I would react since I've never had to face such a family circumstance. The comparison of different religious views is a good analogy. Theoretically so would alternative lifestyle choices (I can just imagine one brother telling another, "You can come over to my house, but you can't be homosexual while you're here."). Many a family have been torn apart based on those differences as well. I've never had to deal with any of these issues and hope I never do.

You have your rights and he has his...a choice only you can make, and you know the particulars better than anyone else. Good luck.

[Deanimator]

We're not in the wild west.

Other than for professional gunfighters, the "wild west" was safer.

[TN_Mike]

Having read through all this, a few things are pretty clear:

1. Sentioch has given very good advice
2. The OP is not interested in good advice, he wants confirmation only
3. The operative word here is "contempt." A bad thing to feel for family.

This quote is telling:



The use of the word "smugly" here is redolent of contempt. One would never use a term like this to describe the behavior of a person for whom one feels any level of affection.

And then this:



Well who died and made you God? Leveling this kind of judgement on your relatives makes you sound like a pompous busybody. What, you walked around their house looking for fire extinguishers? You say you've only spoken to your brother a few times over the years yet you suddenly have all this knowledge about their car seats and the 24/7 status of their garage door?

Wow, for someone who says I shouldn't be judgmental, you are doing a good job of being judgmental. Interesting.

He told me he often leaves his garage door open all night and doesn't think about it. He told me they don't have a fire extinguisher (the subject came up when I used the old fire extinguisher analogy about why I carry) I know from the rest of the family and from first hand observation since I have been here that they don't make the boys ride in car seats. And excuse me, but not only is it irresponsible and bad parenting but against the law as well. But I guess that's OK by you.

The details here don't add up right, but if any of the reportage here is true (and I'm guessing only a very small amount of it is), then you're leading with your jaw. You're forcing your beliefs on your brother and sister-in-law, acting shocked that they don't conform to your politics, and writing them off with contempt and, arguably, hatred.

Calling me a liar. Nice.

They're getting the better end of this deal.

Again, nice. There's that non-judgmental side of you again.

Carrying concealed means carrying concealed. The only reason to display your firearm was to rub it in your brother's face: "Hey there, Mr Liberal Fancy-Pants, lookie here! I was carrying a gun all the time I was here. Haw haw haw! Whaddya think about that?"

Indiana is an open carry state and I do it. Often. Go a head and gripe about that now.

A terrible thing to do. Even so, if asked to not do that again when visiting, the adult response would be to put a gun safe under your car seat and secure your firearm on the next visit. It's called "respecting the wishes of your host." If you are a visitor, and your host asks that you remove your shoes at the door, you take off your shoes - you don't make a federal case out of it.

I have a gun safe in my car. Doesn't matter. I still will not leave a firearm in my car, even locked in a car safe if possible. They only way I can maintain control of my gun is to keep it on me.

And what the hell do you care who they voted for? They are free to cast their votes as they like. What, you're restricting all family contacts solely to those who voted for the Ghost and Mrs Palin? Far as I can tell, the majority of the country found that choice unpalatable.

As to why the hell I care who they voted for, I care. Simple as that. I am not going to make this a political thread. But I care. For many reasons.

Also, I apologize if the tone of this comment is unsupportive. I'd much prefer to write, "good on you - keep your wife and children safe from these gun-grabbing weenie liberals and never contact them again as long as you live." But no matter how I shake this, it seems to me that you've inspected their lives and choices like some blue-stockinged censor, found them wanting, and blanketed them as family, as individuals, and as human beings with a thick layer of unbridled scorn.

Well, I'll take that as seriously as I can considering I don't know you at all and you don't know me at all and yet still feel comfortable enough to call me a liar and completely judge me on things you really obviously don't understand.

Yes this is my brother. A brother who I don't really know and who I was looking forward to getting to know but I now realize is not someone I like. Not just for the gun reason. Not just for the completely crappy parenting skills he and his wife exhibit. There are plenty of other reasons. You think I am judgmental? You should meet him, his wife and her Mother and Father. Your head would spin. You own a gun? You must be a budding criminal. You actually carry that gun? My God, you are a Domestic Terrorists. You would be told that. How do I know? This is what I was told about me and my wife.

I didn't post this looking for support. I posted it because I was flabbergasted. I was shocked that my brother could be so very different from what I expected. That's all. Doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me or is supportive or not.

[BigBear]

He has the right to request you not bring a gun into his house around his family. You have the choice to go or not. The comment about his parenting skills was your opinion. His hanging up on you was his opinion of your opinion. I would have handled it differently.

[yoyomeng]

As I scroll up after posting I see the thread is veering ...... so back to it's purpose.

... since you are apparently not welcome in his home maybe you could invite him into yours? ...

Or just conceal your weapon and say nothing more of it. I've been getting grief from my mother re: guns and carrying and stuff. Agree to disagree sort of thing. She's never literally asked me not to wear/bring it so I continue to.

I decided to drop the whole thing with her and since then things have improved.

When she asks, I just say nope. She can still tell my view conflict with hers but she doesn't push it anymore. My situation is quite different than yours as I've have an active relationship my entire life with her so I probably have more interest in preserving and maintaining it ... anyhow, food for thought.

[gilraen]

Imminent thread closing in 3...2...1...

I think the OP could have handled it much better, much more respectfully, despite his abject disappointment that his brother felt unexpectedly different on a topic that was so important.

[SIXTO]

I deleted 30 posts, and several member have received heavy infractions for the childish arguing. One was banned, another is close to it. Simply put, knock it off or don't post on DC. You will not ruin the good thing we have with the typical internet arguing like Simpletons. Its done, its over. And don't bother PMing me crying about your infraction(s). I'm not changing it.

Carry on.

[GunnyBunny]

I deleted 30 posts, and several member have received heavy infractions for the childish arguing. One was banned, another is close to it. Simply put, knock it off or don't post on DC. You will not ruin the good thing we have with the typical internet arguing like Simpletons. Its done, its over. And don't bother PMing me crying about your infraction(s). I'm not changing it.

Carry on.

[oakchas]

TN Mike:

I have had need of a defensive handgun already in my life. In my view, the odds of needing it, anywhere I might be, are far less that your estimation. Your argument to me is invalid on it's face.

I too, have had cause to to have a defensive handgun on my person in my life. That was about 30 years ago. I currently believe that we all have more reason to carry as the odds that I quote seem to be diminishing. The argument of necessity (chances of actually needing and using the weapon), to you, may be invalid on its face, but it is no less true.

On the one hand, you say:

Honestly, I could not care any less than I do if he respects my choices or not.

While your original post says:

One of the reasons I was looking forward to living up here was to get to know my brother again and now that I have, I am disappointed...

Apparently, at some point you hoped to get to know him again , and possibly, to mend the fences of a broken relationship. But you seem "disappointed" because you expect that all of the movement toward that end must come from your "liberal, Obama supporting brother and his stuck up wife."

So, the disappointment appears to be that he didn't immediately see the error of his ways all these long years and kowtow to you and your view of the world.

Apparently, your brother and his wife do have some difficulty understanding the greater risks in life as evinced by the lack of a fire extinguisher, or the use of car seats to protect their children. If that's the case, how can you reasonably expect him to see the need to protect against an even less likely threat?

I am not saying you, or your concerns for yourself, are invalid. I am saying you cannot easily sway someone to share those views using "in your face" methodology. At least not any more than a militant terrorist can sway you into seeing his point of view by setting off an IED in front of your house.

From the point of your original post to now, I see that you have clarified your position towards your brother, and that what he thinks or does is of no concern to you... If that was the way you felt in the beginning, why bother with the post in the first place? Or, did you just pick out the replies that you agreed with anyway, to solidify your feelings?

I feel strongly that we have the right to keep and bear arms. I do not brandish my weapon to demonstrate that belief.

If you want to try to help protect your nieces or nephews form real life threats, why not send your brother a gift... A fire extinguisher will set you back $20.00... the odds of him (or any of us) having a house fire serious enough to call the fire department is 1 in 300.... much steeper odds than he will need to have and use a gun in self defense.

And, in that way, you can begin to show him that some risks are not worth taking... in the end, he may become more risk assesment oriented, and understand your desire to carry a gun, perhaps even condone it, based on your risk assesment.

[DaveJay]

TN Mike:

I too, have had cause to to have a defensive handgun on my person in my life. That was about 30 years ago. I currently believe that we all have more reason to carry as the odds that I quote seem to be diminishing. The argument of necessity (chances of actually needing and using the weapon), to you, may be invalid on its face, but it is no less true.

On the one hand, you say:


While your original post says:


Apparently, at some point you hoped to get to know him again , and possibly, to mend the fences of a broken relationship. But you seem "disappointed" because you expect that all of the movement toward that end must come from your "liberal, Obama supporting brother and his stuck up wife."

So, the disappointment appears to be that he didn't immediately see the error of his ways all these long years and kowtow to you and your view of the world.

Apparently, your brother and his wife do have some difficulty understanding the greater risks in life as evinced by the lack of a fire extinguisher, or the use of car seats to protect their children. If that's the case, how can you reasonably expect him to see the need to protect against an even less likely threat?

I am not saying you, or your concerns for yourself, are invalid. I am saying you cannot easily sway someone to share those views using "in your face" methodology. At least not any more than a militant terrorist can sway you into seeing his point of view by setting off an IED in front of your house.

From the point of your original post to now, I see that you have clarified your position towards your brother, and that what he thinks or does is of no concern to you... If that was the way you felt in the beginning, why bother with the post in the first place? Or, did you just pick out the replies that you agreed with anyway, to solidify your feelings?

I feel strongly that we have the right to keep and bear arms. I do not brandish my weapon to demonstrate that belief.

If you want to try to help protect your nieces or nephews form real life threats, why not send your brother a gift... A fire extinguisher will set you back $20.00... the odds of him (or any of us) having a house fire serious enough to call the fire department is 1 in 300.... much steeper odds than he will need to have and use a gun in self defense.

And, in that way, you can begin to show him that some risks are not worth taking... in the end, he may become more risk assesment oriented, and understand your desire to carry a gun, perhaps even condone it, based on your risk assesment.

[Tangle]

Guys, this has reduced to debating personal opinions about personal issues. I think we've had enough.

closed.