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Disappointed by my brother, he appears to be an anti

7K views 104 replies 69 participants last post by  Tangle 
#1 ·
I haven't been as active on here in the last month or two as I have been for several years but I am getting back into it. I dropped out for a little while because I recently moved up to Indiana from Tennessee. (I am in Indiana but the wife and kids are still in Tennessee. We are moving them up here this Friday:danceban:)

Yesterday, for the 4th of July I went to my brothers house for a cook out. I rode up with my parents and as usual, I carried my Glock 23 in a concealment hip holster under and untucked T-shirt.

When we were leaving my brother walked out to the driveway with my Dad and I. My Dad had brought his XD .40 but left it locked in a car safe in his Minivan. Dad of course checked to make sure nothing was amiss and the gun was still there. My brother preceded to kind of make fun of my Dad for feeling the need to bring a gun with him. I of course defended my Dad and told my brother that Dad's gun wasn't the only one present that day and then showed him that I had one on all day.

You'd have thought I had just kicked his dog or something. He tried to tell me that there was no need to bring a gun with me and that he lives in a nice part of town. I tried to explain it to him, that crime, especially violent crime can happen anywhere but he wasn't interested in hearing it. So I quickly gave up.

I heard from him today. He told me that he wants my wife and I and the kids to come up when they get up here but he wants me to leave the gun at home. I politely told him that to me, that is not an option and if the gun is not welcome, then I am not welcome since the gun and I are a package deal. He was somewhat stunned that I would not visit them without the gun. I then told him of my belief that any parent that won't arm themselves for the protection of their kids are unfit parents and don't deserve children. To which he smugly stated "well I don't even own a gun." I told him I knew that and to think about what I had just said. After several seconds of silence, he hung up on me. Oh well.

One of the reasons I was looking forward to living up here was to get to know my brother again and now that I have, I am disappointed to find out he is not only and anti, but after talking to my Dad about the whole thing, he and his rather stuck up wife are big Liberals and Obama supporters. When I told all of this to my wife last night on the phone, she flatly stated that she doesn't want our children around them or their children. That shouldn't be a problems.

What a huge disappointment to find out that members of your family are not the people you thought or expected they would be. I miss Tennessee even more now. I foresee a move back there in the not too distant future for us. So does my wife and she isn't even up here yet.:frown:
 
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#2 ·
I'm with you, Mike, about it being a package deal. If he wants to make it all about the gun, that's on him, not you. You are making it about your family's security.

At least your wife is with you on this one. Good for her for not wanting them to influence your children. :hand10:
 
#3 ·
That is a shame. Don't forget, he is still your brother, thick or thin, he is still your brother. That being said, do what is best for your wife and kids, and good luck.
 
#6 ·
Sorry to say it, but your brother is a typical liberal...they only believe in choice when it's their choice. If you happen to speak to him again, tell him if his home is invaded to call Obama since he's doing such a great job on our southern border.
 
#7 ·
I went through that issue with my aging, liberal mother Mike. You're a grown adult, it's legal, it's your moral responsibility and it's not negotiable. Brother will just have to come to your place.....or not.
 
#8 ·
"I then told him of my belief that any parent that won't arm themselves for the protection of their kids are unfit parents and don't deserve children. To which he smugly stated "well I don't even own a gun." I told him I knew that and to think about what I had just said. After several seconds of silence, he hung up on me. Oh well."

These words are a bit strong and offensive don't you think?

It's really none of my business but, since you posted, maybe a different choice of words would go a long way towards building a relationship with your brother and his family. Not saying that you change your stance on carrying....just less confrontation. The first sentence in this quote is pretty confrontational and counterproductive.

If you can't get past their political views, maybe a relationship isn't that important to you.

Again, none of my biz but, that's family. You might want to rethink your approach to this matter.
 
#15 ·
No, I do not feel that my words were too harsh at all. And to be honest, I have not been close to my brother for 24 years. That was the last time I lived here. I went off to the Navy. Since then, we have actually seen each other maybe 10 times. Spoken a total of maybe 30 times. I am not that close to him and if I do not get close to him, it's really no skin off my nose at all. As a person, I do not really like him at this point. He doesn't come to my parents house to help them with anything, even if they ask for it. (they are in their late 60's with some health problems) But he is always going to his wife's parents place to help with stuff.
 
#9 ·
Stick to you guns on this one Mike. But, you may want to be a little more tactful when explaining your beliefs.

My mother and in-laws have always been AG. But, I made it clear that my children will NOT be able to visit "without" me or my wife because I think they are not capable of protecting my children.

They have been more than welcome to come visit "us" and the children. However, my wife and I always politely but, authoritively refuse their invitations for the children to visit.

They now seem to be interested in taking a CWP class and getting their permits.

BTW;
It really has helped "our" case; by citing BG instances that happen in their own cities of Nashville & Memphis.
 
#10 ·
I feel your pain! My oldest brother is so liberal he makes Obama look like a conservative!

I've learned that arguing with a lib is impossible since they live in an ideological world. For them, what matters is the way they "think" the world is as opposed to how it "really" is. No matter how much you argue the facts of reality, they are blinded by ideology and refuse to accept the way things really are.

He lives in Georgia and when I go to visit, I never tell him I'm armed. I figure that what he doesn't know won't hurt him. He may assume I'm armed since he knows I always carry here in Ohio but he's never mentioned it.
 
#11 ·
If you were going to burlarize a house, steal something or rob someone ... would you do it in a poor crime ridden part of town, or the "good part of town". And he thinks BG's haven't figured that out long ago.

Dont' attack him for not understanding... educate him as to why you do.
 
#37 ·
If you were going to burlarize a house, steal something or rob someone ... would you do it in a poor crime ridden part of town, or the "good part of town". And he thinks BG's haven't figured that out long ago.
I hate to be a stickler for details, but FBI statistics show that criminals do tend to burglarize poor crime-ridden parts of town (hence the term "crime-ridden"). In fact the majority of burglaries happen with one poor person robbing another poor person and not someone venturing into the good part of town to rob wealthier people. Apparently, they haven't "figured that out long ago."

This is not saying that I think that there is no risk in "good neighborhoods" or that people shouldn't be prepared to defend themselves but the risk is a lot lower than you think. Depending on the neighborhood, his brother's kids are far more likely to drown in a pool or be hit by a car than be hurt by criminals.

-- This message has been brought to you by someone who lives in the good part of town AND owns guns for self-defense. :smile:
 
#12 ·
Sorry about your problem; I went through something similar before. There is a big different between being an anti and being an anti only because of lack of knowledge. You can talk about it with people that belong to the second group, and perhaps they will realize that they are wrong and therefore they might change their mind. But IMO there is not reason to waste time trying to talk with people that really are antis. Perhaps you should find out to which of those groups your brother belongs before deciding anything.
 
#13 ·
my two cents

Mike, I had the same situation happen to me except in was my father who was a little Anti. Which was strange for me conceding that like myself he is in law enforcement and has been for 30 years. He asked me one day if I was carrying a weapon I stated yes. He looked at me with a strange look as if to say “why do you need that?” we had the because its not the governments job to protect the any one citizen conversation So you have to do it yourself . He has had a firearm in the nightstand draw ever since I was a little kid. But he does not believe in self protection outside the home. I live in a town that the PD unit is at least 45 minutes away if you call. The town is patroled by the county sheriff or state police. So to me it is a different way of thinking. I think it the head in the sand thinking, But if your brother does not want you to bring the weapon with you when you visit his house. I would not go over there. Harsh word or not.

Spike
 
#14 ·
Sorry things worked out the way they did for you Mike. I understand completely. I go through the same thing with my brother, who is retired LEO. Unfortunately he is one that thinks that LE are the only people who should own/carry firearms. I refuse to go to his house (he lives in Illinois), and he won't drive to Indiana to visit when I'm here.
 
#16 ·
You bluntly spoke your beliefs to your brother: something I have trouble doing but admire those who can. You didn't call him a name or insult him per se but instead told him what you thought of his actions while defending your own. You feel so strongly that you are willing to risk a relationship with his family.

Perhaps he'll give it some thought. In the meantime, since you are apparently not welcome in his home maybe you could invite him into yours? It sounds like you are indifferent to the relationship but it is something to think about.

I applaud the strength of your belief.
 
#99 ·
As I scroll up after posting I see the thread is veering ...:argue:... so back to it's purpose.

... since you are apparently not welcome in his home maybe you could invite him into yours? ...
Or just conceal your weapon and say nothing more of it. I've been getting grief from my mother re: guns and carrying and stuff. :nono: Agree to disagree sort of thing. She's never literally asked me not to wear/bring it so I continue to.

I decided to drop the whole thing with her and since then things have improved.

When she asks, I just say nope. She can still tell my view conflict with hers but she doesn't push it anymore. My situation is quite different than yours as I've have an active relationship my entire life with her so I probably have more interest in preserving and maintaining it ... anyhow, food for thought.
 
#20 ·
Sounds to me like your brother's wife wears the pants and has pushed her beliefs off on him. I come to this conclusion since your dad is not anti and you are not anti, your brother had to have been influenced by someone, i.e. his wife.

...p.s. now I read the post I missed by ncsteveh. He nailed it before I did. :smile:
 
#21 ·
Im in same boat with my in-laws but you have a much greater responsibilty to your wife and children as for my kids i let them make there own choice as far as there beliefs they have spent enough time around my Liberal in laws to choose GOD and Country and became Conservative best thing I could have done ...lol
 
#22 ·
I wouldn't worry about it. Most anti's are converted after a crime...hope that doesn't happen, but it's pretty much the truth.:image035:

Most of my family, and most of my wife's family are pretty anti-gun. No one has ever mentioned me having my firearm with me (they do know). :ziplip::ziplip::ziplip::ziplip::ziplip::ziplip:

Other than at school, if my presence is required without a SD weapon, then my presence is not needed.:comeandgetsome::yup::wave:
 
#23 ·
I hear you exactly. I've been trying to have any sort of relationship with my brother for the past 30 years. We've never gotten along and see opposites on everything (Yes, he's a flaming liberal, I'm much more conservative) He married a girl that is even worse. I married one much better. We see them once or twice a year. Thank God he doesn't have children.
My advise, don't give up your convictions but try to steer the conversations elsewhere. If nothing else, so that you can at least finish dinner. When I converted my father into firearms world (taught him to shoot .22 pistol today) I really have to keep him from spouting off when my brother is around, he watches too much Fox news and tends to believe everything he hears.
My brother tries to bait us, I don't fall for it.

Sad part, I once taught him to shoot an SKS and together, we broke down an AR-15 and an AK-47 to compare the internal workings. Deep, deep down inside I think he'd enjoy the sport but his wife has beat any sense out of him and when she caught us that day, treated him worse than when he'd cheated on her.

effed up.

JIm
 
#24 ·
You can't choose family, but that also means you don't have to necessarily like them as a person either. It's not uncommon for family members to have such opposing views and beliefs. No amount of debate will change it...it will take a personal event. Since your Dad carries, perhaps you should have some discussion with him about the background of your brother's point of view. He may be able to shed some light on it (probably the influence of the wifey and in-laws). After hearing him dis on Dad, I probably wouldn't have mentioned my carrying...but then again, it would be hard to listen to without saying something too. Hard to tell until you're in the situation, and I'm lucky that my family and in-laws are all cool with it. I wish you the best of luck and hope it turns out ok. Sometimes, you just have to say, "so be it."
 
#25 ·
I hate to put a damper on this but concealed means concealed. You just had a big tiff with a family member because you didn't keep your mouth shut. You might have been able to convert your brother over time but probably not now.
 
#28 ·
"keep you mouth shut".... about your inalienable 2nd amendment constitutional right??? You kiddin' me? I have no intention of doing that, nor would I suggest anyone does that if you wanna keep your gun rights. Be it your priest, preacher, professor, parent, brother or state legislator.... where fightin' for a constitutional right here bro.
 
#26 ·
That doctor in Connecticut lived in a "nice neighborhood" too.

He still got beaten half to death and his wife and daughters raped and burned to death.

Apparently a lot of "nice neighborhoods" bought defective force fields that don't actually keep monsters out.

If the brother is lucky, he'll learn without it costing him his life or those of his loved ones.

My mother in Chicago had the same nonsense to say, except she didn't want me to carry HERE. I just told her that unless she was willing to follow me around, ready to throw herself between me and a violent assailant, she didn't get a vote. She's learned to accept that.

Protecting yourself and your family trumps a brother's mindlessly parroted propaganda ever time. Consider that advice from a militantly pro-gun liberal.
 
#30 ·
It is sad that you felt the need to display your gun to your brother when it was clear how he feels about them. It is also sad that you are allowing this to keep you from establishing a healthy relationship with him. As right as we may think we are on certain issues, we should start questioning when we become so intolerant of differences of opinion that we curtail or damage our relationships with family and friends.
 
#31 ·
I'm hanging in there. I don't see us spending much time at the brothers house. Nor them at ours since my wife and I tend to wear them very openly at home. But Mom and Dad are 100% col with it!
 
#32 ·
I then told him of my belief that any parent that won't arm themselves for the protection of their kids are unfit parents and don't deserve children. To which he smugly stated "well I don't even own a gun." I told him I knew that and to think about what I had just said. After several seconds of silence, he hung up on me. Oh well.

One of the reasons I was looking forward to living up here was to get to know my brother again and now that I have, I am disappointed to find out he is not only and anti, but after talking to my Dad about the whole thing, he and his rather stuck up wife are big Liberals and Obama supporters. When I told all of this to my wife last night on the phone, she flatly stated that she doesn't want our children around them or their children. That shouldn't be a problems.
Hey, I'm sorry to hear that your brother doesn't support you on this issue. However I think it is more sad that you would break the family bond over something like this.

So he doesn't want to defend his family with a gun. So what? That doesn't mean he wouldn't throw down his life to protect his family from a dangerous threat. He just considers it a low-risk threat that's not worth bothering with. Do you have a bomb shelter in your back yard? If you don't have a bomb shelter, then you aren't protecting your family against the threat of a bombing, hurricane, etc. It's not that you don't care about your family, it's that you don't consider these to be high-risk threats. The only difference between you and your brother is your estimation of the probability of a BG attacking your family.

You may argue that your brother's estimation of this probability is INACCURATE, but does that make him a terrible person unfit to have children? Should people be quizzed on the probabilities of being in car accidents, hurricanes, muggings, plane crashes...etc...and not allowed to have children if they disagree with the probabilities that you think? It's really quite ridiculous...

I can understand your belief that the gun and you are a package deal, and I'm not suggesting that you break that rule. But you don't have to lose your brother over this. Maybe if you treat him with more respect and actually get him to understand how you feel, he will be more cooperative about allowing you to protect your family. When you insulted him as a father, and told him you didn't think he has the right to be a father, that is the deepest insult you can give a person...and coming from your brother, that's just wrong.

Although you may not always be as close with your family as you are with your girlfriend, wife, and friends...all of those people you meet along the way in life might leave you at some point. Example, about half of all marriages in the US end in divorce. But family, they know you better than anyone else because you grew up with them, and that's a bond that can never be broken or replaced.
 
#34 ·
Wow, way to fire one across my broadside.

Let me retort. First off, I feel very strongly on this issue. Obviously more strongly than you.

Secondly, he and his wife do not make their children (ages 3, 6) sit in child safety seats when they drive either. They have no fire extinguishers in their home. He routinely leaves his garage door open all night with the door into the kitchen unlocked just because he doesn't think about it. He is an idiot. His wife is an idiot.

I don't really have a relationship with him. As I said, and you would know if you had read the entire thread before jumping in, I have seen him maybe 10 times since 1986. Spoken to him maybe 30 times since then, and that includes the 10 times we have seen each other.

We are not close. Heck, we weren't ever close when we were growing up. So it really isn't a big deal.
 
#33 ·
In my experience most Anti-Gun folks just poke cotton in their ears and don't listen to you, so don't try. You can't fix stupid and as I have said I have learned to not even try, it's kind of like talking to a fence post.

The Duke
 
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