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Almost had to draw

5K views 59 replies 46 participants last post by  pa5906tsw 
#1 ·
I was camped in the Gunnison National Forest over the weekend and had an encounter that thankfully ended well.

First off I will tell you I made a bunch of mistakes during this encounter, the good thing is my wife and I learned from it.

We were camped about 1/4 mile from a forest service road between Gunnison and Crested Butte near a trail head. I have never had any trouble with other campers or hikers so I was very surprised at what happened.

As my wife and I were getting ready to go hike I was debating on leaving my weapon in camp. I will never have that debate again, stay armed.

The hike was good, as we were returning I saw a truck parked across from my camp. Then I saw a guy cross the road to my camp, I went on alert but it is not unusual for folks to visit. I was surprised when he did not call out to see if anyone was in the tent.

We were camped in a 12x17 wall tent, the guy unzipped the door and walked in. I went on high alert. Now is when I started making mistakes.

We were about 40 yards away when he went in and when he came out I was about 10 yards from him with my wife about 10 yards behind me. I should have stopped and told my wife to retreat back up the trail when I saw him enter my tent.

As the guy came out I yelled at him, asking what he was doing in my tent. He quickly saw that I had my hand on my gun and he was very startled.

We were already close together and got closer, when I realized I wanted more seperation between us. I held up my hand and he stopped and I backed up a couple steps.

He was trying to explain that he does a lot of camping with his family and wanted to see my set up. I resonded that he should have called out and when he did not receive a response he should have left.

By the way he was dressed in a pair of running shorts and a Tee shirt and had a camelback hydration system on his back. And the mistakes just keep coming. I could not see a weapon, but I wanted to know if he had any of my stuff in his camelback.

I told him to pull everything out of the pack. I am glad he did not have a weapon in the camelback. I should have emptied it myself.

All this time my wife is standing off to the side and I asked her to check in the tent to see if anything was missing. Bad idea, I should have cleared the tent before my wife went in. Clearing the tent might have been tricky keeping an eye on him and clearing the tent.

Any ideas on how to keep an eye on the guy and clear the tent?

The whole time I felt threatened simply by the circumstances but he was physically much smaller than me, on the other hand you never know who has martial arts training or is just a tuff street fighter.

He was big time apologizing to me and my wife. He had come out from Gunnison planning to go for a run and was courious about my set up. He said he knew he had crossed the line.

In the end he went for his run and my wife and I talked about what we should have done different.

I will always carry my gun. My wife did not bring hers, as she puts it you have yours. In the future she will have hers on her, which would have helped. She could keep and eye on him while I cleared the tent.

After talking to him I relaxed and no longer felt he was a threat. Anyone caught in the circumstances would have been telling a story to get out of trouble. He did look like a runner and was dressed as such, he knew he had crossed the line. He looked scared, his blue shorts did have a brown tint in the back.

After his run he apologized again, I am glad everything turned out well.

I was surprised at how calm I was throughout the event. I believe this forum helped, but I still made a lot of mistakes.

Semper Fi
 
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#4 ·
I would have been very upset with someone doing that too. Checking out my setup is one thing and unzipping and walking inside my tent is another. Sounds like you caught a potential thief (or worse) but scared him straight.
 
#5 ·
Any ideas on how to keep an eye on the guy and clear the tent?
Have your wife cover him with her gun. Work as a team.

Thanks for posting. This is a very real and daily consideration for my family. We are into offroading and camping far off the beaten path (UT & other Rocky Mtn states). I've had strange people walk into my campsite many times. In fact, the last time it happened it was quite similar...young guy in t-shirt walks into camp, right up to the offroad trailer and my buddy's Landcruiser. When my friend and I appear from behind the vehicle..he never saw us coming...he stumbled his speach a bit and stated that he just wanted to see the offroad camp setup. :tired: Didn't announce himself. He didn't see us...just our wives with our infant sons, at the time. Which put us on high alert. After talking with him for a few minutes we suspected "mushrooms" or something must be the cause of his huge pupils and affected speach. He was pretty close to having a "bad trip" and a close encounter with a Glock. You just never know what's going to show up in camp.

This is one of the main reasons I began carrying. Your example was exactly why my wife carries too, especially when camping. She's always got a .357 and I usually have my 1911 or XD. Glad things turned out OK for you.
 
#6 ·
Don't know where that is, but he would have probably got his butt kicked in Alabama. You just don't go in someones abode uninvited and unannounced. Glad all ended well.
 
#7 ·
All in all I think that you did ok.
It is wise to find out what you have befor getting too aggressive.
By having your hand on your gun you conveyed authority and cut your draw time by half or more.
Personally, I prefer closer to farther.

As far as the tent clearing, you said it was a wall tent. Have him tie back the door flaps, then you can view the inside without having to go inside and you can still keep an eye on him.

Cheap lessons are always valuable.
 
#12 ·
In Oklahoma, Castle Doctrine extends to all dwellings, including tents and RVs. I don't know about your laws, but here you would have been easily justified in drawing, though I'd have personally just had mine exposed for him to see.
 
#13 ·
What a dope! Tent or House, what's the difference? It is your residence at the moment. Would he just walk right in to your house because "he wanted to check it out"? I think not! There are somethings that you just don't do. Sounds like you handled it fine, but I would probably stay on alert for the truck in case he decides to pay a return visit.
 
#15 ·
We were about 40 yards away when he went in and when he came out I was about 10 yards from him with my wife about 10 yards behind me. I should have stopped and told my wife to retreat back up the trail when I saw him enter my tent.
I agree that telling your wife to retreat would have been a bit more prudent.

I told him to pull everything out of the pack. I am glad he did not have a weapon in the camelback. I should have emptied it myself.
The safest thing to do would be to have your wife go through the camelback while you keep an eye on him, but I feel like it would have escalated the situation in a way to have you or your wife going through his bag rather than letting him show you.

Yes, he crossed the line by entering your tent, and it sounds very likely that he was intending to steal from you, but once you gained control of the situation and he knew you had a gun ready to draw, I think it was safe to have him go through his own pack like you did.

All this time my wife is standing off to the side and I asked her to check in the tent to see if anything was missing. Bad idea, I should have cleared the tent before my wife went in. Clearing the tent might have been tricky keeping an eye on him and clearing the tent.
From the description of the scene so far it seems pretty obvious that he didn't have a partner so I don't see any safety concern about your wife checking the other tent.

In fact there is an advantage to letting your wife check the other tent because it shows her that you two are a team, which is good for your relationship and will help to ensure that she supports the way you handled the situation, and probably make her more likely to carry herself next time.

Bottom line, I think you handled the situation pretty well
 
#18 ·
Same scenario, but a different twist.
As he comes out of the tent and you confront him, he responds.
"I'm camped a couple hundred yards over there. My wife tripped and gashed her leg on a snag and she is bleeding pretty bad and I don't have and first aid stuff. She has a towel on it, but its two hours to town. Can you help me?"
Things are not always what they appear.
If you have an edge, which the OP did, see what you have befor jumping in with both feet.
 
#19 ·
I guess i think about things differently. I think you did just fine. Maybe I'm too much of a risk taker.

When I'm armed, threat or no threat i don't like sending my wife away from me. Maybe stay up the hill a little but still in easy path and sight.

I think you did fine to, dare I say, brandish. Justified or not I'm not a fan of drawing and not firing (again thats just me) Hand on gun was perfect.

One time at a costume party I thought a guy stole my phone (clipped to pants felt a tug and it disappeared) saw a guy with a fanny pack and made him dump it out using gravity instead of going through it. This may have worked better for you he doesn't get the drop on you and you can warn him about putting his hand in the bag when you tell him to open it.

I've been a practitioner of martial arts for a while, i would say 5ft isn't enough room. 10 ft is where i would feel better cuz if he ran i think i could catch him. and its close enough to be skirrd.

As far as making him open the tent, i dunno. Thats probably the perfect answer but not something I'm likely to do.

I actually think you handled this close to perfect! Main mistake in my mind is that i make my wife pick. She either has a gun or not. If she has it she always has it. If she doesn't don't bring it. But never leave it anywhere.
 
#23 ·
Hand on gun is good; drawing it would have been the next step in escalation, which obviously wasn't necessary. Too bad there wasn't a ranger station nearby (?) to call in. Guy was dead wrong to enter the campsite. He should have considered it your home and no trespassing allowed.

Very eye-opening experience for you and post readers.
 
#25 ·
I could be wrong, but I would think that all campin' places have first aid stations.

Also, I disagree with ANYONE entering a tent or RV, even if called out or not. See, I'm deaf. I love to tent camp. I'm very observant of my surroundings because I can't hear. I usually notice movements or changes in lights/shade very easily. If I think someone is outside my tent, and they just walk in, they will be facing the barrel of a gun (hope he stays outside; I don't wanna scare the **** out of him in my tent).

Just my thoughts. :)
 
#26 ·
You did just fine...you re-evaluated your steps and learned from them.

If you're in my tent, you're in my home...CAUTION! I could see you putting a hand on your weapon or drawing...it is your call when someone is in your home illegally.:comeandgetsome::yup:
 
#27 ·
Would be a little concerned about the laws of you going thru his stuff at gun point (or threat of gun point). What if he had something you thought was yours and took it? Could have gotten sticky. If law enforcement was close enought to call (not always an option when camping, i know)I would have gone that route and let them do their job.

Just my $.02. Otherwise it all turned out ok, thats the best thing.
 
#28 ·
I was just thinking that. I dont mean to hijack the thread, but wanted to ask. First I want to make it clear that I think the OP did a great job, and handled the situation well! With that said, when I read senarios like this, I like to put myself in that situation and think about what may happen legally speaking after its all over. What would the legal ramifications be if that knuckle head decided to call park rangers or police and say that the OP threatened him with a pistol?

It wasnt a life/death situation. However It couldve turned into one rather quickly. The OP confronted the runner rather than to stand down and wait for authorities. Again, I think the OP did a great job, and in the heat of the moment, I probably wouldve done the same thing. What do you all think?
 
#29 ·
The only other thing to consider as you approached was, was he alone? Was there anyone else lingering around the edge of the camp with him? It sounds like he was up to no good, and trouble usually travels in pairs. If your wife had been carrying, she could have stayed on the perimeter and watched the entire campsite in case someone else tried to take you by surprise.

All things considered, you did great. Give yourself a big thumbs up and stay on alert when camping.
 
#30 ·
Well, you know what they say about opinions....
so I will add to the stink.

I feel that not drawing was appropriate for the situation.
You met force with the same force. Nothing more.
You did good.
You learned from your experience which is even better.
 
#35 ·
I think the guy was probably looking to nick some food from you for his run. If I'm running longer distances, I'll take an energy something-or-other, and I think this guy forgot his and was looking to make amends for that.

You handled it pretty well and took away the cogent lessons. Best of all is that everyone goes home alive and well to tell the tale.
 
#37 ·
I for one, wouldn't have been too concerned about him taking stuff. I know way better than to leave anything valuable in a TENT with nothing but a zipper to secure it. If I'm not inside the tent, the most valuable item in there is probably my deoderant :p

I also learned a long time ago not to camp without a SD gun --- 3am and some guy pulled into our camp brights on our tent. Ummm yeah. We had hunting rifles but it's just not the same.
After that I learned to put the tent, and especially the door side out of range of possible headlights so you can exit the tent without being the deer in the headlights, also to park my truck blocking the entrance (that particular campsite had two "driveways" though, which was part of the problem)
 
#38 ·
I sure as hell don't buy his story. I would think it might have been a good idea to copy down his info from his DL, vehicle license etc. and dropped it off with the Sheriff on the way home along with a statement. 20/20 hindsight.

Anywho, thanks for sharing as it gave me something to think about scenario wise. :hand10:
 
#39 ·
You were 40 yards away when you saw him enter your tent. Presumably, he didn't see you.

Question - was anything in that tent worth your life? Your wife's life?

You had no idea who this guy was, whether he was armed, or if he was alone.

Stuff is just stuff. Your sidearm is to defend your life, not your stuff.

I would have taken cover, observed, gotten his description, and waited for him to leave. If he took anything, I would have given the info to the Park Rangers - when you were able to contact them (I understand you had no cell phone service).

The fact that you had no cell service would make me even LESS inclined to get into a possible gun fight - how do you get help if you or your wife got hurt?

And over stuff?! No way.

I'm actually surprised and a bit disappointed that no one else in this thread has pointed this out so far. You were not in danger - you PUT yourself in danger by getting close to a possible threat.

Sorry to be a bit hard on you, but consider this a lesson learned. Thanks for posting, and hope others can learn as well.
 
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