Maine non-resident permit - is it a real CCL, or an "extension"?

This is a discussion on Maine non-resident permit - is it a real CCL, or an "extension"? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Handgunlaw.us states that Maine offers a non-resident permit ( http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maine.pdf page 2). It sounds like this would be a regular CCL permit but issued to ...

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Thread: Maine non-resident permit - is it a real CCL, or an "extension"?

  1. #1
    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    Maine non-resident permit - is it a real CCL, or an "extension"?

    Handgunlaw.us states that Maine offers a non-resident permit (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maine.pdf page 2). It sounds like this would be a regular CCL permit but issued to non-residents. I have a few questions about it though.

    1. The Handgunlaw.us Non Resident Permit information (http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/N...entPermits.pdf) says "Getting their non resident permit is the only way for a non resident to carry in Maine." Does this mean that this is only for Maine to use for allowing non-residents to visit their state legally, or can someone from another state use this non-resident permit as a full CCL in another state?

    2. Handgunlaw.us says "Missouri Honors Non-Resident Permits/Licenses" on it's Missouri page (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/missouri.pdf). Would I be able to get a Maine non-resident permit and use it legally in Missouri?

    3. Since the required information for the non-resident permit says "Copies of all concealed firearm permits issued by other states or jurisdictions." would I be rejected for not having any previous permits?

    The reason I ask about this is because Maine issues at 18. Missouri offers at 23, but there is a loophole where we could get it at 21 through Utah or Florida. I am 17 right now, 18 on July 30. However, when I am 19 I am moving to a new part of Missouri with my girlfriend away from everyone and anyone we know because of a college transfer. I would like to have a CCL before then for a protection, since this will be a completely new experience for us.

    Also, if all of this were to work this way and I acquired a non-resident permit, are there and special laws because of the non-resident permit, or would I only need to abide by the normal Missouri CCW laws?

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    Member Array MaineGlock's Avatar
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    Before I moved to Maine, I applied and got a non-resident permit and here is what I can share. Thus far Maine has reciprocity with 6 states: Delaware, South Dakota, Louisiana, North Dakota - Class 1, Wyoming, & Arkansas. You may want to double check with your state laws before relying on a non-resident permit to carry in your home state (if that is what you are looking at doing). Finally, you may have to check with the folks with the State Police here in Maine if you don't have a resident permit. I don't think that you have to have another states permit, but I could be wrong. Their phone number is: 207-624-7200, trust me, they are very nice and give wonderful advice!
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    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    In regards to the reciprocity states, the Missouri page says Maine does not honor a Missouri permit, but the Maine page says Missouri does honor Maine's. So does that mean using Maine's in Missouri should work fine that way?

    I have read through RSMo 571 a few times (Missouri weapon laws) and have never found anything specifically about resident/non-resident permits... They are worded like this: "4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state."

    Also I have to pay attention to the fact that not many states honor Maine's permit. As I am in southwest Missouri, I need to be careful if I ever make a trip into Kansas.

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    You'll still have to follow the carry laws for your home state. I believe Missouri changed to 21 a while back.
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    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    The age drop was mentioned but didn't pass in time, so it is still 23. See this post I made in another topic: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ml#post1618868

    I'm sure it will be 21 by the time I get there, but I would rather be able to protect myself sooner.

    I was also wondering if the Maine non-resident permit would be only for those who plan to move to Maine, but the non-resident application (http://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/license...%20package.pdf) doesn't have a question asking if/when I plan to move to Maine.

    MaineGlock, did you have a permit from another state before you got your Maine non-resident permit?

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    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opalelement View Post
    Handgunlaw.us states that Maine offers a non-resident permit (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maine.pdf page 2). It sounds like this would be a regular CCL permit but issued to non-residents. I have a few questions about it though.

    1. The Handgunlaw.us Non Resident Permit information (http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/N...entPermits.pdf) says "Getting their non resident permit is the only way for a non resident to carry in Maine." Does this mean that this is only for Maine to use for allowing non-residents to visit their state legally, or can someone from another state use this non-resident permit as a full CCL in another state?

    2. Handgunlaw.us says "Missouri Honors Non-Resident Permits/Licenses" on it's Missouri page (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/missouri.pdf). Would I be able to get a Maine non-resident permit and use it legally in Missouri?

    3. Since the required information for the non-resident permit says "Copies of all concealed firearm permits issued by other states or jurisdictions." would I be rejected for not having any previous permits?

    The reason I ask about this is because Maine issues at 18. Missouri offers at 23, but there is a loophole where we could get it at 21 through Utah or Florida. I am 17 right now, 18 on July 30. However, when I am 19 I am moving to a new part of Missouri with my girlfriend away from everyone and anyone we know because of a college transfer. I would like to have a CCL before then for a protection, since this will be a completely new experience for us.

    Also, if all of this were to work this way and I acquired a non-resident permit, are there and special laws because of the non-resident permit, or would I only need to abide by the normal Missouri CCW laws?
    I am in the process of applying for ME...here is my take on your quesitons.

    1) Maine is one of those states that only honor resident permits. If ME does not honor MO, then you would need to get the ME non-res permit in order to carry in ME.

    2) MO honors ALL permits from all states whether it be a resident or non-resident. It does not say "we honor X state with restrictions"...there are some states that do that. Since MO does not list restrictions than a ME permit issued to a 18 yr old (IMHO) must be honored. HOWEVER: I do not see it in the MO statutes, but you want to make sure that MO is not a state that requires its residents to carry on a MO permit only.

    3) I do not see any requirements that a person must have another state's permit in order to apply for the ME permit. For example, PA and NH both have such restrictions for non-resident applicants. A PA non-res applicant must have a permit from his home state IF his home state issues such. A NH non-res applicant must have a permit issue by any other state.

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    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    Well like I said in my last post the restrictions say either a valid endorsement by Missouri or by another state. From the quote I posted, Subdivision (1) that it mentions is carrying a concealed firearm, so carrying on a permit from another state is legal here.

    Also I don't need Maine to honor missouri permits, the only thing that matters to me is that Missouri honors Maine (which it does) so I can carry in Missouri on a Maine permit.

    Thanks to everyone who is supplying advice, it is all welcomed and appreciated.

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    Member Array GlockLobster's Avatar
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    FWIW, in Maine non resident can open carry without any permit. Non CWP's holders (MAINEiac's or those from away) cannot carry in a vehicle, the weapon is unloaded and ammo is secured.
    In my local, I would not OC, too many chuckleheads to worry about and/or any LEO encounters that may happen. I'd only OC up north or western Maine, but that's me.

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    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    I'm not worried about carrying in Maine. The question was whether the non-resident permit was a real permit allowing carry in other states, or if it was only an extension of sorts to allow a permit holder from another state to carry on Maine only. :)

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    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    You'll still have to follow the carry laws for your home state. I believe Missouri changed to 21 a while back.
    I did not realize this when you posted it, but now I think you may have been pointing out that unless I am 23 a non-resident permit is still illegal. That is not the case though. The age of 23 is the limit to acquire the concealed carry permit from Missouri, but all other laws about concealed carry only require a permit (either from Missouri or another state) without requiring the age. So as long as you have a legal permit, age is not an issue.

    You only have to be 23 to apply in Missouri, but not carry if you have a valid permit from another state.

    571.107. 1. A concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize the person in whose name the permit or endorsement is issued to carry concealed firearms on or about his or her person or vehicle throughout the state.
    EDIT: Also as additional information, the CCW handout by Missouri State Highway Patrol (http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/P...ts/SHP-863.pdf) says this:

    Missouri’s carrying concealed law recognizes all out-of-state permits,
    including those from political subdivisions — cities and counties. Also,
    keep in mind that Missouri’s peaceable journey law will apply to travelers,
    including those who do not have a permit.

    Out-of-state residents cannot obtain a Missouri concealed carry endorsement.
    However, nothing prohibits Missouri residents from obtaining
    a concealed carry permit from another state, and those permits
    would be valid in Missouri.

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    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    I found a few more discussion online about Maine permits in MO, here are some:

    Non-resident CCW License? - Missouri - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum (Google cache so will not exist for long)

    Non-resident CCW in Maine? - THR
    CCW in MO while under 21, but over 18 - THR

    The last link clears up a lot of the confusing and inaccurate statements in the thread. however there is still one mistake. You can own a handgun in Missouri under 21 legally, but it has to be through private sales and not from an FFL. Federal Law prohibits sales of handguns to people under 21 by an FFL, but possession of a handgun in Missouri is legal over the age of 18. Here is another thread that clears it up (this one is also from 2010, the other was 2007. This could have been changed between this time, I do not know any laws before 2010.) Missouri laws regarding pistols for under-21s. - THR

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    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opalelement View Post
    I'm not worried about carrying in Maine. The question was whether the non-resident permit was a real permit allowing carry in other states, or if it was only an extension of sorts to allow a permit holder from another state to carry on Maine only. :)

    With exception of CO, FL, (ME), MI, NH and SC...none of which has reciprocity with ME...a non-resident permit is equal to a resident permit. For example, many people will obtain a UT and/or FL non-resident permit as they have the greatest number of reciprocated states.

    My PA license covers me in 25 states...when I got UT's non-res permit I added 7 more states that I can travel to.


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    Member Array opalelement's Avatar
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    So my remaining question was whether or not I needed a previous permit to apply for the Maine non-resident permit... I called the Maine State Police with the number that MaineGlock supplied and I asked, and they said that no previous permits from any states are required.

    So now I am emailing a CCW instructor here in Missouri asking about age limits for their concealed carry course... I don't know if they set limits since the CCW permit application age in Missouri is 23. The one I am emailing right now said although the MO age is 23, some younger people go in and just wait to go to the sheriff's office. I asked if an 18 year old would still get the certificate since there is no time limit established in MO law for the training completion certificate.

    As of now it looks like sometime when I am 18 I will be applying for a Maine permit, you might hear about it in a few months.

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    Member Array fireman836's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opalelement View Post
    So my remaining question was whether or not I needed a previous permit to apply for the Maine non-resident permit... I called the Maine State Police with the number that MaineGlock supplied and I asked, and they said that no previous permits from any states are required.

    So now I am emailing a CCW instructor here in Missouri asking about age limits for their concealed carry course... I don't know if they set limits since the CCW permit application age in Missouri is 23. The one I am emailing right now said although the MO age is 23, some younger people go in and just wait to go to the sheriff's office. I asked if an 18 year old would still get the certificate since there is no time limit established in MO law for the training completion certificate.

    As of now it looks like sometime when I am 18 I will be applying for a Maine permit, you might hear about it in a few months.
    I would use caution with this idea. Although Maine will issue a permit at 18, most states that recognize Maine's permit only recognize it for 21 and over or whatever their minimum age is.
    IANAL and I would advise to check this out very closely.
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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    I asked the same question to 2 different CCW course instructors here in St. Louis, and I got 2 different answers.

    As I read the law, both Missouri's and Maine's, a Maine permit given to an 18-year-old Missourian is valid in Missouri. One CCW instructor here in St. Louis agrees with that view, and he has been providing training for 18-year-olds to qualify for Maine permits for quite some time.

    They take the class, they apply, they get the permit, they carry in Missouri. I believe it is legal. Have any of them been told differently while carrying? I don't know.

    As the law reads, it appears to me an 18-y/o with a Maine permit can carry.

    My daughter will be 18 soon, will apply for a Maine permit, and if granted, will be carrying.

    Period.

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